Linux user: “I hate Windows, because it’s a proprietary OS that got there through sabotage, goodwill from its user that it got on the honeymoon week of Windows 7, and is actively getting enshittified.”
iOS user: “I hate Windows, because the computers it is for don’t come with Gorilla Glass put on the screen, often are too heavy, and the installation of applications involve complicated steps, not just using the app store.”
Android users acting like their OS is open source while they use their OEM proprietary spice of it
Exception for the rare people using an actually fully FOSS OS
No one anywhere is daily driving a fully Foss OS, unless you can find someone running a GNU+Linux RISC-V PC, and is using it daily (sitting in front of it with keyboard & mouse or handicap equivalent) in some sort of non-automated desktop use fashion. Also they can’t access like 99.9% of the web.
x86-64 instruction set is proprietary. ARM is proprietary. The drivers within your smart phone modem are proprietary (unless you are someone who is using mainline PostMarketOS, which I have high doubts about)
In this day and age we’re mostly doing harm reduction. Android is harm reduction compared to iOS, just as GrapheneOS is harm reduction compared to AOSP. Maybe some day in the gay space communism future we can have pure fully Foss devices, but until then, we are stuck with harm reduction.
Stop Patrick your scaring him.
I honestly spent like a week, outlining what I would need to build a FOSS phone, on RISCV.
current revision could do it. it would be a bit slow, but it’s possible…
all was good till I hit two hardware bottlenecks.
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GPU: unlike ARM which several manufacturers have 2d/3d accelerators. RiscV really doesn’t have that. all current implementations are primitive… (I have a Spacemit K1 SOC, I have been prototyping with and it’s entirely Vulkan based and stuck in mid stages of MESA development. so *Gl in Vulkan wrappers are broken… GUIs perform like a m68k machine from 1988…)
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this is the big one, Modems. there is only two suppliers and both are vendor locked. they won’t provide hardware to ANYONE without a contract. — this is why 5g USB/PCI-E modems don’t exist. there is a monopoly no one is talking about…
until these two points are addressed a foss phone is not possible. not even close. ~ even if you damage control on software (aosp) and some how convince amd/Intel to sell you chips for GPU on a PCIe lane sharing ram…
your still stuck on the modem. some one needs to get the ball rolling on a monopoly suit against the big two.
I would love to see a lawsuit over that honestly. I dont think we’ll see it anytime soon unless something extravagant happens, but I’d love to see it.
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iOS is just a more UNIX, better designed, Windows. Closed OS of American big tech. If you are choosing between those two masters, go for it. But if you don’t want to be a serf to US big tech, or want to get the most out of old hardware, come find FOSS. It’s a far healthlier relationship.
iOS is the iphone OS, which is extremely locked down
macOS (Apple’s desktop OS) is something completely different (although probably with similar internals)
It is composed of code derived from NeXTSTEP, FreeBSD[3] and other BSD operating systems
Which is why I sometimes call macOS “NonfreeBSD”
And Windows is “NonfreeBS”
PlayStations and god knows what is some closed BSD. Apple are not alone in eating the BSD free lunch and giving very little back for it. Kind of the point of the license. It’s why Linux took over in most places, you can’t just take because of the GPL.
On which handheld device do I run this majestic FreeBSD?
Oh you just know people has put NetBSD on a phone. Doubt it’s been done with a GUI though.
fun fact, the first smart phone, before the iPhone was built on a netbsd derived base. it had a dialer and contacts app.
but it was ofcourse just a prototype… there was a smart watch too, but it had a battery life in minutes, not hours/days lol
historically all early adoption attempts at mobile smart devices suffered from battery restrictions which killed them. they were both too early and too late. by the time battery tech was nearly ready, companies like Apple took advantage of market position to prevent competition, by getting suppliers of LCD and Battery technology excluvely locked to them…
what does iOS have to do with this, did you mean macOS?
iOS and Windows are not for the same use case, many people use both
That’s part of the humor to me. The iOS user chiming into a conversation they didn’t need to be a part of.
You are correct. But with a good number of people shifting from using traditional format computers to just their smartphones, there is a kernel of truth in the statement. Perhaps you sit at a desk and stare at spreadsheets or terminals to write code. I think this causes a certain bias among the tech cognisante in believing that everyone still owns a computer-- and many people still do. But there is a very great number of people that no longer own a traditional computer and don’t even want/can’t afford one. And many of them just own an iPhone for their basic everyday needs.
What I find scary that when I spent 4 years teaching math at my local school, many couldn’t use a mouse when faced with traditional computing tasks. And I needed to spend a class period teaching them how. If it doesn’t have touch screen they didn’t want to use it.
That’s just intellectually lazy, like not wanting to use a flight joystick or a ddr mat. Touch isn’t superior in all ways, it’s just a different way. For example, with a mouse, it’s wildly physically efficient, you can just rest your arm and wrist on the table and barely move and get tons of stuff done, quickly and PRECISELY, and virtually never get tired.
What age group(s) were the kids you were teaching? Were they gen alpha?
9-year-olds through 13-year-olds. So gen whatever we’re up to these days.
You need to understand that they start with iPads as young as 5 and use those until they are about 11 years old. And by 5th or 6th grade they get a smartphone. All touchscreen all the time. By 6th grade they get a Chromebook with a touch screen and touchpad. So by the time I needed them to use mouse, they not only had never used one, but a shocking number had ever seen one in real life, there was always one or two. That ain’t their fault. They quickly learn how to use one, but that didn’t mean they liked using one. They had spent short their life just not needing one. And for no small number of them, they won’t need one or ever need one unless they have a job that requires its use. It’s like if I handed you a space mouse and was upset you didn’t already know how to use it and program it. You probably don’t spend a good portion of your days at work using 3D CAD to design tooling up to complete manufacturing lines.
We get hung up on tech in this space and are shocked and surprised when we run into people that not only don’t share our love of tech, but really don’t much care. They got what works for them and don’t want anything more.
It’s like… Ironic luddite.
Yeah, maybe. But they might be the smart ones. What do you need a mouse for if you have no need?
They’re children. You can’t say if they’ll need a mouse or not. This is the math argument all over again: “I’m never gonna use __ ever”. That’s just bad logic. That you were/are a teacher and honestly presenting me with this level of argument is actually shocking.
Some of those kids are going to need to be engineers or writers or programmers or teachers or editors or whatever other productive members of society and not just ipad consumers.
Yes, systems will change. Yes, technology has so far enabled a lot of people to get by with only touch input. But even though a lot of stuff will change and the need for i/o like mouse and keyboard will shrink, unless we make some serious breakthroughs, there will still be a need.
“Why need a mouse when you have no need” the ape refuses fire because it has not needed it so far.
its the same logic I heard over “I don’t need a keyboard, I have a touch screen”. smh.
just because something is different to what you are used to, doesn’t make it bad…
now what is bad, is all these parents giving iPads and iPhones to kids under 13… fml, do they not realise how developmentally stunted it makes them.
they become obsessed with the feedback and can’t differentiate between “not getting feedback” and happiness. it’s a epidemic, all because they don’t want to deal with their kids interacting with them… if they don’t want them, dont have them…
I literally don’t know the difference.
Is iOS to Android as Windows is to Mac?
iOS is Apple’s operating system for phones and tablets, MacOS is Apple’s OS for desktops and laptops.
Even more confusing that it is written in all caps like the OS of the Nintendo Wii.
Hahaha, who the fuck cares? Will Apple sue me if I write it wrong? Wait a minute…
i want ios to perish
iOS is fine. I fucking hate apple, but iOS is a baby gate that protects (metaphorically) undeveloped minds from getting into danger…
…he says while leashed to his android phone…
iOS is a wheelchair, that wheels you into a applecare subscription and handcuffs you to the ecosystem… while removing or lobotomizing third party apps.
iOS is what you give to the drooling kid that just presses buttons on the screen over and over. because you know there is nothing they can do to really damage it, except call emergency services, which you will probably need after bashing your head on the screen 30 times while it refuses to let you install a update as you downloaded a image file it can’t upload to iCloud as your 50mb quota is exceeded and now it can’t do backups.
I have both lol
😒
ios clearly took inspiration from windows vista for the glass design
and vista very clearly took inspiration from apple’s aqua; this whole “apple liquid glass copied windows vista” argument is very stupid.
It was all Xerox if you go back far enough.
hardly. Aero seen it’s development start before aqua was a published design.
Aero appeared in MSDN builds a full 4 years before…
if anything its a ripoff of a old gnome 2/3 theme. I think it was called ice?
alot of that era was ripping off gnome and KDE ui designs… there was Portable Media Players using Linux kernels on arm hardware that predated the iPod and Zune by a full 3 years…
advertising and paid reviews on tv and magazines got you sales and buried everything back then…
you could steal the US president and hide it with a single fox news broadcast in 2009…
iOS user here - I hate Microsoft, and have disliked Windows since before XP. Linux is more conducive to my preferences. Surprisingly, so is iOS for how I need/want to use a smartphone.
Jokes on you I am an iOS for mobile and Linux for desktop user. I’ll carry on now.
People are so hateful towards Windows these days. I hated Windows when it was “good”, but don’t anymore because I don’t use it or actively check on what changes Microsoft make, it’s kinda surprising that the hate became so mainstream and I only learn from media on why that is the case.
For me the last golden era of Windows was around 2019 when they were making a lot of changes that helped out devs like WSL 1 and 2 and the new terminal. I guess I should’ve air quotesed golden era because even Windows 10 had ads built in. Prior to that it was 7 but that might just be rose tinted goggles.
Naaah, Win 7 was best. They didn’t fuck with control panel, Aero slapped, system was fast, stable and customizable. Win 7 was a system made for the user and felt like future.
8 was, from what I heard, not that bad and 10 entered freefall. 11 got jetpack, but was badly oriented so it boosted itself down.
So no tinted glasses. 7 was actually great.
windows XP and 7 were there last attempts at selling a OS to run apps.
windows 8/10 was there first attempt to building a ecosystem, designed around the principles of EEE & subscribe…
whole reason for ai In 11 and coming 12, is to build a dependence and make you subscribe for a copilot subscription so your PC isn’t slow when your trying to get it to load apps at a prompt as they removed the launcher again…
what is this @UwU_Underground thing i keep hearing about and how does one gain access to such a privileged esteemed group
iOS users are eloi
Who are the morlocks?
My parents.
following this logic - they must be Windows.
Explain
I’ve been using Linux, Mac, and Windows simultaneously for over a long damn time and I say this:
Mac
Mac terminal is still Linux and you can do Linux things with it. I use homebrew stuff all the time - but mostly just do as your told and you’ll be happier. Also, it really helps if you have a few extra pesos in your pocket. I mostly use little Linux boxes to do Linux things rather than Macs. I use Macs more when Apple has decided they like computers and they work great. I move away when they see something shiny and start to depreciate what I have already bought. I will NEVER forget how bad they screwed me with Aperture. However, the Mac Mini is a great product and I use it for what it’s good at.
Windows
NT 4 was peak Windows. As far as I’m concerned, there is nothing outside of equipment OS that can’t do. Also, nothing useful added to Windows since then really works as promised. (Unlike Mac) Excel is still as slick as a cat’s ass and they keep making it better. It doesn’t work on other OS platforms as well.
Linux
It is only for people who love computers. Believe it or not, not everyone does.
Me being an iOS user and Linux user be like
See, I like iOS because it integrates with my work laptop of a MacBook Pro. I don’t need to fiddle with my phone anymore and all texts just come through my laptop.
But also, I like tinkering/programming stuff on my time. iOS just works for the most part.
But it would be nice to not be giving money to corpo tech.
When I can finally get a Motorola Graphene phones, iOS is gone.
Idk if it’s going to be signed then. If it is and graphene passes at least some layers of the BS Play Integrity API, then it would be perfect
Doesn’t play integrity make you feel “safer”?
Obviously not, but it’s not like I can dictate what companies do :(
But I mean, really, it’s all in what software you use. I used iOS with Linux for a while with KDE and KDE Connect along with Tailscale to connect the two with amazing results. Its not all bad. I like Android + Linux better, but iOS + Linux is definitely doable, at least it’s not iOS + Windows.
Same
I’m an iOS user too. I’d switch the day there’s a nice little Android smartphone that’s compatible with a Google-free OS (and by “little,” I mean under 5.8 inches, I don’t have giant hands).
I’m disabled. Android and iOS have terrible accessibility. And so do banks
Not surprising to see the genapos have bad take lmao
You make a lot of assumptions about me for someone who doesn’t know me.
I do. I’m your daddy.
You could call once in a while you know? Mum is worried about you
My father’s been dead for years.
He killed himself minutes after he shot my mother.
Really?
Sorry about that, just wanted to pull your legs
My bank has a website I can use to bank through, I dont even need an app.
The whole issue with banking apps must seem strange to people in some countries, and make perfect sense to people in other countries. My whole country rely on a 2FA app made by the banks. It’s in every aspect of society. Buying a bus ticket, booking a time for health care, doing taxes, applying for an apartment, signing contracts, all done with the same banking app. Only people with stallmanesque convictions manage without, with lots of effort. So far that app works on e/os/ and GrapheneOS, but not regular desktop Linux.
hack your banking app, steal all your money and your identity. yikes.
sad part all of this would be fixed with well documented open standard API, that all banks have to comply with and 2fa of the users choice…
What do people without smartphones (like the elderly) do?
They have smartphones, unless they are so old that they don’t need it.
Many of the elderly don’t know how to use their phones well, but most (from my experience, not actual data) can use BankID without issue because it’s simple to use. Before BankID they used much fussier code-based authenticators, so I think most people old enough to remember that are happy for modern convenience.
But a lot of web- and app-based services are less accessible for them. Finding out the bus times, navigating health services, and paying bills are often not available through traditional low-tech means. They also have the problem of not understanding why their old phone suddenly doesn’t work anymore. (They just took down the 2G network, for instance, and BankID no longer supports Android 9 and lower, if I’m remembering the right version.)
On most public transport nowadays it’s impossible to buy a ticket while boarding, but there isn’t so much as an automated ticket machine anywhere anymore. There are very nice customer service centers at central stations, but that doesn’t help the people trying to get to the central station.
There are a lot of problems, but I don’t think BankID is causing the most egregious ones. It’s a problem if you can’t access online banking because you can’t use the software to log in, but it’s even more of a problem if you don’t have the alternative of physical banking because society is cashless. It should be made more possible to live without digital services and smartphones even though I personally enjoy them.
Oh, that’s a terrifying single point of failure.
I agree, and it’s run by private companies who could just shut it down or use it in evil ways. Our government is maybe making a state owned solution, but it will take time.
If you’re in Sweden you’ll be glad to know Sverige-ID is coming this December.
Aha, didn’t know that, thanks. I hope it will work with free operating systems.
2FA is the opposite of a single point of failure though. In order to impersonate you someone has to have access to your authentication device and your master password. There are no passwords to remember or get leaked/stolen, and you still have traditional identification and a physical backup in the form of codes or an authentication device.
In Sweden it’s like a minute of your time to set up a new phone, or at worst a trip to the bank if you lost your authenticator.
It also has a screen showing what information or authorization is being requested so that it’s much harder to get scammed.
I meant single point of failure as in, if the service gets interrupted you’re locked out of alot of shit you need until it comes back up.
The trade offs may be worth it, because overall that seems pretty useful.
It’s a pain in the ass if you don’t have access for whatever reason, yeah. A lot of that could be alleviated by government policies though. I don’t think it should be legal for public services to refer you to their website or app when you’re asking for help in-person. There’s also no laws against businesses refusing cash, and the banks keep removing ATMs, so it’s getting harder to manage without relying on a phone. I like e-ID, but I don’t like removing traditional human interaction. Kind of like how I love 5G cellphones and hate that they keep removing services like landlines and 2G. Low-tech is vital sometimes.
I think they meant that the single app by all banks can go down through backend crash, buggy/malicious app update, etc.
I guess, but I’ve gone without BankID for about month previously. (It was my own fault for procrastinating multiple things.) You don’t need it; it’s just very convenient.
I’m having difficulty envisioning a malicious update. There’s a lot of transparency and regulations.
Ah right, that makes sense. If it were like upi or pix, and had single point of failure, it would have been scary.
This is terrible for disabled people.
I’m having trouble imagining how this makes anything more difficult than a traditional password setup. Can you please explain?
I know there’s issues surrounding its use, but solving those issues involves changing other policies, not getting rid of e-identification. For example, allowing someone to access their medical records in person instead of demanding they use the website, a problem which would persist with a username and password.
I recently got back to my country. They have e-id. I opened an account. Got paid. My phone broke. Signing up to the app requires a computer with an e-id reader. I use it once every couple of years. It took me ages to find one. Only to realize the stupid browser extension wasn’t working with linux. At the end I had to go to the stupid city hall. I’m disabled. I would rather use my personal passphrase. What seems easy to you may not be for everybody. I hate it here. Everything is bureaucratic, security first so that the already rich banker doesn’t loose 20 euros to fraudster, nothing it adapted, everything is loud and complicated and annoying.
Banks website works.
My bank uses 2fA where if used in a browser it wants me to scan a QR code on the screen with another app on my phone… I need a very complicated set of mirrors for that to work…
Get a different bank. That is rookie shit.
On the subject of banks, some cuntey banks only provide two options: app and in-person visits. So if you live out of state and the app doesn’t work for you on your version of Android, you’re fucked
Banks in my country don’t even do in person anymore. I hate these fucks
That’s so they can pass on the savings to you, right?
Right?
Yes, bankers are notoriously generous people who just like to give stuff for free
Linux: I run the bank
z/OS: No, you don’t.
Linux users sampling self-hosting options
I literally don’t do any finance on my phone at all. This image is qualified
Most bank apps work on Sailfish OS via Android App Support. Some don’t.
Spicy!
