Note: Judging by the comments, a lot of people are obviously not reading the post and are instead assuming we are calling for defederation of lemmy.world. That is not the case, and in fact the opposite is true. LW already temporarily defederated anarchist.nexus once, and the evidence suggests Mr Kaplan is now pushing for full defederation of all the FAF instances. We are trying to build a coalition of instances that will agree to defederate from lemmy.world IF Kaplan goes ahead with the defederation. Apologies if you weren’t aware of the context.

🏴‍☠️ Hoist the Black Flag: Pledge to Boycott Lemmy World!

… if Lemmy World dares to defederate from any ship in the Fediverse Anarchist Flotilla - https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/, https://anarchist.nexus/, and https://quokk.au/.

Mateys, we can’t let a mega‑instance captain bully the rest of the fleet just because their ship’s bigger. If Lemmy World tries to throw the FAF overboard, we’re calling for a show of solidarity: a fediverse blockade of Lemmy World in response, until the landlubbers see reason (i.e., there is an acceptable change in their leadership and/or this policy).

This is about mutual aid, not mutiny - standing together so no single admin gets to rule the seas unchallenged. A united armada of smaller instances can absolutely blunt Lemmy World’s outsized influence (and, let’s be honest, their ego).

☠️ A word to the captains: before hoisting colours or locking in a course, we ask ye to let your crew have their say. Run a poll, open the deck for discussion, and listen to the voices aboard your vessel. These seas belong to all of us, and decisions that shape our fediverse should be made together, not from the captain’s quarters alone.

If other captains be keen to chart this course with us, drop anchor and make the pledge public in the comments. The more hands on deck, the harder it is to sink any one of us. Let us know if you are holding a vote!

dbzer0 and AN members can vote on this pledge in !div0_governance@lemmy.dbzer0.com, and quokk.au will be holding their own vote.

🏴‍☠️ Solidarity forever, and fair winds to the Flotilla!

governance type: sense check

  • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
    1224·
    4 days ago

    To clarify, this is not a vote to defederate. This a call to instance admins to pledge for a mutual protection pact.

    • CerebralHawks@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      21·
      17 hours ago

      NGL, I kinda want us to defederate.

      I’ve started to reply a few times trying to dig into what Zionism exactly means and all that. The truth is, the nuances of what is happening over there is a bit beyond my understanding. I thought it was wrong when the Germans were rounding up and gassing Jews in the 1930s and 1940s. And I think it’s wrong that the Jews are now committing genocide against the Palestinians. The difference is, the world sided against genocide almost 100 years ago… but most of the world seems to be siding with genocide now. I don’t get it.

      Here’s what I do know: Lemmy and the Fediverse is fucking awesome. I even kind of like how shit places like Truth Social and Lemmy.world can exist… I do not believe in an echo chamber. That said, if someone is toxic, I think it is fine to cut them out. I think the problem if we do not defederate is, we justify the actions of the people who are fighting to make Lemmy.world the only instance people care about. I browse /all, which means I see all the comms on all the instances. And it seems like there are two kinds of Lemmings who create posts: those who cross-post across Lemmy.world, and those who cross-post across multiple instances. I like the latter a lot more, because if we do defederate from Lemmy.world, then we’ll still get content. The former group bugs me because I feel like interacting with them at all supports Lemmy.world, and if they’re siding with genocide, against human rights, I do not want to be a part of that.

      Since the drama with Lemmy.world has began, I’ve seen that a lot of the communities I enjoy following are actually on Lemmy.world. But I don’t want to support them. I make long, thoughtful posts and I feel we need more of that on Lemmy. I don’t want to contribute to people I’m politically and/or ethically opposed to the actions of. I would rather dbzer0 or other flotilla involved or flotilla aligned instances had those same comms and discussions, and that my energy would be better spent there.

      Even though I may be among the least political dbzer0 user, I’m here because I looked at the instances and said “hey, I don’t really dig everything dbzer0 is about, but they seem to support free speech, and I’m here for that.” I looked at Lemmy.world too, but it just seemed too… I dunno. Too much like Reddit? Too… corporate? I like that it’s big and it brings new Lemmings in, but I don’t like the lack of diversity of opinion over there. Reddit was such an echo chamber, and while its opinions shifted, it was always a bit of a problem. I’d rather be welcomed on an instance I don’t fully agree with because it supports freedom of speech (to a point, obviously; we’re never free from consequences) than walk on eggshells on Lemmy.world.

      I also have a PieFed account on an instance that is wholly apolitical, so I don’t think it will defederate from anyone or be defederated by anyone… except maybe the porn one? But no great loss there, IMO.

      …yeah, I think this is the one I post.

    • BananaOnionJuice@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      5·
      2 days ago

      Will this end up splitting the fediverse into islands, if the protection pact gets activated?

      What about sending all the fediverse admins to a bar where they can talk it out while drinking beer.

      • jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        3·
        2 days ago

        no, there will still be instances people can join that cross federate. but the reality is LW is a cess pit of shit moderation by people who think advocating for a genocide is perfectly fine while suppressing the voice of people who advocate stopping a genocide, unfortunately they’re sitting on first mover advantage and got a lot of users from the initial migrations.

        the fallout from this will be world getting isolated and better moderated communities cropping up to fill in the gaps.

        • The D Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netEnglish
          291·
          3 days ago

          This reminds me of when Beehaw de-federated from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works and the lemmy.world users acted like Beehaw’s administrators were dictating for Beehaw’s users what they could venture out and see rather than what had happened: open signups had allowed a greater number of trolls into Beehaw’s space than they could reasonably deal with.

          The longer the threadiverse experiment goes on the more it seems to me like Beehaw’s admin team knew the problem they were seeing the instant they saw it, and have been proven right in their approach to dealing with it. My Beehaw account used to be my main account (really should update my profiles at this point to reflect that this is my main one and the beehaw one is for when I’m too fuckin’ sick of how many assholes abound on the threadiverse). It’s a really good instance and I have a huge amount of respect for that admin team.

          IDK… There seems to be an instance culture with .world that:

          1. The threadiverse is the entire fediverse
          2. The fediverse started in April of 2023 rather than in December 2012
          3. The fediverse is exactly like email and blocking domains should only be done based on spam (the irony of this one given the Beehaw situation…)
          4. Infinite growth is good, therefor being on the biggest instance is good
          5. Any disagreements with these axioms is a troll
          • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
            201·
            3 days ago

            The fediverse is exactly like email and blocking domains should only be done based on spam

            I don’t think this one is true. They pre-emptively defederated hexbear early on and they defederated anarchist.nexus due to one mod not even interacting with them.

            • The D Quuuuuill@slrpnk.netEnglish
              101·
              3 days ago

              yeah i think the admins have a better understanding but it seems like the users have a different idea of what the fediverse is than i do. you’re right that my wording doesn’t quite capture concept i’m trying to capture though.

              maybe it’s something more like “the only justifiable instance defederation is the one we engage in”

        • w3ird_sloth@lemmy.world
          37·
          3 days ago

          Randomly join an instance. Now just an ignorant ‘worlder’. But I wasn’t like those other ‘worlders’. I pledged myself to a greater cause. I crossed the deserts seeking those gilded forums talked about in stories. Even now, if you look out on a clear night, you can see my wandering star.

  • punkisundead [they/them]@slrpnk.netEnglish
    10·
    2 days ago

    I am gonna ask the admins of my instance if they make a post for this.

    Btw has anyone an overview how big lemmy.world is in comparison to the anarchist instances and in comparison to instances like lemmy.ml?

  • curbstickle@anarchist.nexusEnglish
    7·
    2 days ago

    Just saying as a FAF user - full support here, and I hope other instance admins take note of this long history of behavior to be ready to support as well.

  • Rieux@lemmy.zip
    8·
    2 days ago

    Wow. i chased the rabbit hole in this drama and im surprised whats going on here. i wish i could support you.

  • Venia Silente@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    11·
    3 days ago

    So we are voting to confirm that if they attack one of us they attack all of us?

    Obvious y is obvious, no matter how much fascists are simply incapable of understanding the concept of solidarity. May this serve them a lesson.

  • Draconic NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    13·
    3 days ago

    In favor of this, lemmy.world needs accountability for their actions, them throwing their weight around to justify bad administration decisions is exactly what we feared when Facebook said they would enter the fediverse with threads. Hopefully we can get more instances on board with this like with Fedipact, or it won’t mean a whole lot.

  • Furbag@pawb.social
    13·
    3 days ago

    I’ve been meaning to make a switch to a more niche instance for a while and I couldn’t be bothered to motivate myself to do it, so I guess this is as good of an excuse as any. Hello pawb.social.

    To be honest, I find the instance tribalism to be a bit cringe and painting entire swathes of users with the same broad brush is just not something I’m interested in taking part in. That being said, I also don’t want to be associated with the armpits of the internet either, and when you start catching strays just because you have .world at the end of your username swapping to a more low-key instance is more an act of self-preservation than it is protesting anything about how lemmy.world was run for average users like myself (I posted lots of anti-Israel sentiments on /c/politics and never once got a ban or a warning for that specifically), but I see the benefit in diversifying the fediverse a little bit more.

  • LoafedBurrito@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    132·
    3 days ago

    I just jumped over to lemmy.world and wow it’s a shit show. They are banning ANYONE that doesn’t agree with them. Turning into reddit over there. Time to stop going on lemmy.world.

  • Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    1286·
    3 days ago

    I made a very similar post to this on the LW Announcement post, but this has since been slightly edited and fleshed out. But… for those unaware…

    A user by the name of Luminous was an admin on Anarchist.nexus. They banned MrKaplan from a community for ‘posting zionist apologia.’ Luminous also had ‘Murder all Zionists’ as their display name. MrKaplan took this as a personal death threat. Instead of speaking with any other admin from Anarchist.nexus and reporting the behavior, MrKaplan instantly defederated from Anarchist.nexus. In the next couple of days, Kaplan messaged other users/admins of Lemmy about the defederation and suggested defederation to others as well.

    After being posted in the Piefed general chat, PugJesus pushed back against the defederation.

    The conversation moves elsewhere.

    So, I messaged Kaplan. Conversation goes on and one thing is made clear, that Kaplan did not reach out to any of the Admins of Dbzer0 or Anarchist.nexus until after defederation had occured.

    LWAdmins made an announcement post discussing the defederation but the post was not featured unlike all other recent posts made by the LWAdmin account, which felt underhanded. To make matters worse, Serinus (a moderator with admin level abilities), proceeded to step into the conversation and start removing offending posts for reasons listing anything from “We’ve heard your opinion” to “Misinformation” when screenshots proved otherwise. I say he has Admin level access because @Goferking0@ttrpg.network was banned from the Instance by an Automod I (and Jordan Lund) previously had access to. It sort of sidesteps the Modlog by not logging who actually did the removal, which I’m not a huge fan of, but this was also admitted by Serinus in a comment where he said he was the one who banned them. This being the same Serinus who said this of defederating with Anarchist.nexus:

    Kaplan later doubled down in the LemmyWorld Discord Server, after the conversation I had with them in which they admitted having exactly zero evidence for this stance other than it “feeling odd”, by stating:

    Ruud, the head admin of Lemmy.world, has had no feedback on this position. The only natural conclusion one can come to is that the LW Admin team (of which Serinus now seems to be a part of as he speaks for the admins in the admin community and has admin tools) are not just fully willing to act based off of knee-jerk reactions, but aren’t capable of communicating with other admins on issues that they may have with their instance. Or that they only will confer with you if your instance has enough users for them to consider a valid one.

    Now, they have refederated with Anarchist.nexus since this situation but they haven’t backed down from the threat of defederation. This is much like every other major problematic issue that has been brought up in the past with Lemmy.world. Their admin team drags their feet for an absurd amount of time, despite rolling in reports about moderator abuse or whatever else, and then expects people to act with pre-cog abilities without them informing you of their problems with your instance. Also seem to be willing to police how good your reasoning is on how you feel about the situation to judge whether or not it’s appropriate to defederate.

    To paraphrase what Kaplan said in one of those screenshots, it is not my intention to control who can or can’t be on admin teams on another instance but I do expect other instances to understand that an individual admin’s actions reflect their instance as a whole. Something Ruud seems to not care about and something that Kaplan belives does not apply to themself. Overall, the primary response by the LW Admin team has been to frame AN and Dbzer0 as either a small instance that “only has 165 users” or “only 71 monthly users” or a “vocal minority with an agenda”. For 20,000 users.

    How long before its your instance on the chopping block for not telling them exactly what they want to hear? How many of your users will be silenced by Lemmy.world for a perceived sleight against them?

    What Luminous did was idiotic and troll-esque. But what Kaplan is doing is considerably worse.

    I don’t think I have to state where I stand on this.

    • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      151·
      2 days ago

      Wait, they actually did defederate from anarchist.nexus, temporarily?

      I’ve not been following this very closely.

      That tempts me to just block the instance outright, now, personally… I’ve already blocked most of their mods, and I’m 95% sure jordanlund has either been personally, or assigned a bot to downvote any comment or post I make on .world that he notices, in retaliation for me chewing him out as an objectively racsist shitlib hypocrite like a year ago now.

      … if they move another inch, fuck em.

      I am beyond sick of these hollier than thou, smarter than you, emotionally unstable neckbeard dorks.

      EDIT: Hey look, that one, solitary downvote showed up here too! … how odd.

      • Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        11·
        3 days ago

        Correct. The most you could say, as Tenchiken did in the FAF Matrix, was that Kaplan defederated at the same time as they threatened Db0 (the user).

        No attempt at outreach was made in order to rectify the situation prior to a defederation. It was taken as the first resort, not the last. Despite the admin being gone, refederation only occured, as the LWadmin account posted, because “there is no point in keeping anarchist.nexus defederated while [dbzer0] is federated.”

        This is the same admin team who dragged their feet for weeks on Jordan but instantly defederated from Anarchist.nexus, all users and all other admins be damned, and then threatened dbzer0 as a whole.

        • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          7·
          3 days ago

          Fucking nuts.

          Good on you for the writeups you’ve been doing on this… I don’t have the patience or spare sanity meter, so to speak, to deal with and catalogue this absolute horseshit.

    • Limonene@lemmy.world
      29·
      4 days ago

      They banned MrKaplan from a community for posting zionist apologia.

      Can you link to the post please? This is important. I’ve heard a lot of accusations that they were zionist, but I’m still searching for proof.

      • NoTagBacks@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        7·
        3 days ago

        Yeah, this is a big thing for me, too. Sure, the admins at .world seem to be pretty egregiously losing perspective and power tripping, but if they’re defending a state doing a very public genocide right now, that’s beyond insane. I’m probably in favor of the proposal either way, considering the blatant disregard for other admins and dereliction of duty for something as simple a just fucking communicating. However, if this behavior is also accompanied by someone defending a genocide state, we have some cleanup to do on the fediverse that may require some kind of campaign, because fashy behavior from someone with that much influence over the biggest instance is absolutely unacceptable in our fediverse.

      • Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
        312·
        4 days ago

        Sorry for being unclear. That was the reason that Luminous gave in the modlog. I have no idea/input on that personally, especially when Luminous isn’t an admin anymore.

        • rivvvver@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          82·
          3 days ago

          then please make it clear that u have nothing to support this, and that u were just quoting luminous’ modlog message.

          as it stands, it taints ur entire post with the (possibly false) assumption that mrkaplan posted zionist apologia.

          • Stamets@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            112·
            3 days ago

            I added quotation marks. That being said, I refuse to accept that a single off-color ban reason is enough to ‘taint’ an encylopedia of abuse by Kaplan.

            • rivvvver@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
              6·
              3 days ago

              thanks. i didnt mean to imply it tainted the content of the post. what i meant is that it starts the reader off in a particular emotional state, based on an assumption.

              for what its worth, i do agree that kaplans behaviour was wrong, especially for an admin.

    • iByteABit@lemmy.ml
      165·
      4 days ago

      Lmao of course rimu would be the first to support this, fuck these bootlicking fascists with their Zionist victim cards always at the ready

      • lovingisliving@anarchist.nexusEnglish
        172·
        4 days ago

        Really alarmed by the lack of professionalism in the leadership of some of these platforms. Rimu’s response to me being shadow banned due to a glitch in the login screen of piefed.social was “yea, that happens, you should probably find another instance.”. That’s how I ended up on anarchist.nexus. 😆

        • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          8·
          3 days ago

          Anarchist nexus won’t mask it’s censorship behind false error codes.

          Anarchist nexus won’t personally remove you from the database because you tilted an admin.

          Anarchist nexus isn’t ran by Rimu, so it’s already better.