To me the true tragedy is if Mesopotamia and the Levant formed into one nation like the Arabs in the area wanted, we would have Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine all as one nation. Even if 7 million Jews moved there, they would not be able to dominate their partitioned region. The colonial mandates of the late 19th century and early 20th century is what caused this violence, now we’re just going to live it out until the status quo can eventually change. May the communists win this century
Sure Britain partitioned it all, but they’ve been gone since before 1950. Surely they could have immediately unpartitioned if that’s what they wanted, at a certain point it sounds like Trudeau blaming Mulroney
It’s not as though the most powerful empire ever to exist (amerikkka) was actively destroying any movement that arose to accomplish this during the period you’ve mentioned. The CIA for instance openly admits to having coup’d Mossadegh (democratically elected by lib standards) after he dared to attempt to nationalize Iran’s oil. There are many other examples of the USA meddling in the region, for example the Iraq War which slaughtered a million people and which Biden voted for.
You’re 100% correct about what Amerikkka was doing with the CIA but Mossadegh is not the best specific example since that’s Iran, and Iran is not an Arab country. it is Muslim, but not Arab. They don’t speak Arabic, but Farsi. Iran is not considered part of the “Arab world” but it is considered part of the Middle East. These are often confused.
Arab World (does not Include Iran)
Middle East (does include Iran)
Iran
Usually when people want to refer to the Arab World + Iran they say “MENA region” (Middle East North Africa)
pretty much considered both South Asian and Central Asian. It’s no more Middle Eastern than Turkmenistan or Pakistan
The Middle East is basically just West Asia (sometimes known as South-West Asia) minus Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Georgia and plus two transcontinental countries; Turkey (mostly in Asia except for East Thrace in Europe) and Egypt (mostly in Africa except for the Sinai Peninsula in Asia)
I guess you’re right, the only possibility is that people like their post partition nation and national identities. There’s really no other explanation and no I won’t read any history to find out. Good thing the British came along and taught those foolish savages who they are.
My reply to you was sarcastic. Of course theres much more to decolonization than redrawing lines on a map and the British are absolutely to blame for the longstanding effects of colonialism.
Why are you simping so hard for a country that fucked up half the world?
I don’t think that’s quite right. From what you said, if I understand, the enforcement, and recency are the determining factors? Nothing of justice or fairness? I suppose any atrocity or action is fine as long as the people who were alive at the time (we’ll ignore their descendants whose lives are obviously affected) are dead and gone for a few decades.
Why is 80 years enough? Where did you even get that number? I figure you started off with “this is ok”, then looked at how much time passed, then declared it was “enough”.
I don’t really agree. I’m responding to the thesis of your first comment regarding the arab countries having had enough time to get over the borders they were given. Why is that not what you wrote?
They tried. Pan-Arabism was a massive movement, especially under Nasser. It was opposed by America, western Europe, Israel, the Arab monarchies, and later on, the Islamic extremist movements these nations armed and funded in secular Arab nations.
They tried, Pan-Arabism was popular in the 50s with Nasser and his UAR with Syria. The Americans were worried that Pan-Arab Republic would be Soviet-aligned though so they provided significant support to Islamist parties like the Muslim Brotherhood to divide the Arab world
following the 1952 military revolution in Egypt and rise to power of the charismatic President Gamal Abdel Nasser, U.S. officials began to fear an Egyptian rapprochement with the Soviet Union. This led the U.S. to reconsider the Muslim Brotherhood, which came to be described in official cables not as fanatics, but as “orthodox believers.”
Subsequently, regular meetings were held at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo between the American Chargé d’affaires Frank Gaffney and the General Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood, Hassan al-Hudaybi. By the mid-1950s, when relations between the Ikhwan and Egypt’s military rulers collapsed after an initial period of cooperation, the U.S.’s engagement with the Brotherhood came to be seen increasingly by American diplomats as a possible opportunity to pressure the Soviet-aligned military government in Cairo.
The US also provoked Gadaffi overthrow for the same reason: worried about socialist influence and threat of Arab unity. So they had him brutally executed by islamist rebels. Similar situation in Afghanistan with Osama bin ladin and the socialist government there, though that one came with some serious blowback. These are just a few examples, I urge you to research more about American imperialism in the Middle East, because the United States has played a very major role in the region since the end of the second world war.
To me the true tragedy is if Mesopotamia and the Levant formed into one nation like the Arabs in the area wanted, we would have Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine all as one nation. Even if 7 million Jews moved there, they would not be able to dominate their partitioned region. The colonial mandates of the late 19th century and early 20th century is what caused this violence, now we’re just going to live it out until the status quo can eventually change. May the communists win this century
It always goes back to the British
Sure Britain partitioned it all, but they’ve been gone since before 1950. Surely they could have immediately unpartitioned if that’s what they wanted, at a certain point it sounds like Trudeau blaming Mulroney
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TIL people can’t conceive of the idea all these Arabian countries have had 80 years to merge, if they desired.
It’s not as though the most powerful empire ever to exist (amerikkka) was actively destroying any movement that arose to accomplish this during the period you’ve mentioned. The CIA for instance openly admits to having coup’d Mossadegh (democratically elected by lib standards) after he dared to attempt to nationalize Iran’s oil. There are many other examples of the USA meddling in the region, for example the Iraq War which slaughtered a million people and which Biden voted for.
Arab World (does not Include Iran)
Middle East (does include Iran)
Iran
Usually when people want to refer to the Arab World + Iran they say “MENA region” (Middle East North Africa)
I for one appreciate this lesson. I did not know this. Maybe vaguely. This is very clear, thanks.
Afghanistan does not appear in that middle east map, what region do we put Afghanistan in?
It’s more Central or South Asia
pretty much considered both South Asian and Central Asian. It’s no more Middle Eastern than Turkmenistan or Pakistan
The Middle East is basically just West Asia (sometimes known as South-West Asia) minus Azerbaijan, Armenia, and Georgia and plus two transcontinental countries; Turkey (mostly in Asia except for East Thrace in Europe) and Egypt (mostly in Africa except for the Sinai Peninsula in Asia)
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Hearts of iron brained mf, just merge bro just click yes on the event pop up
I guess you’re right, the only possibility is that people like their post partition nation and national identities. There’s really no other explanation and no I won’t read any history to find out. Good thing the British came along and taught those foolish savages who they are.
Oh OK. So they don’t want to. So what was the point of blaming the English yet?
My reply to you was sarcastic. Of course theres much more to decolonization than redrawing lines on a map and the British are absolutely to blame for the longstanding effects of colonialism.
Why are you simping so hard for a country that fucked up half the world?
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Because the circumstances of the earth flow directly from their actions.
Now how come you’re simping so hard for England?
Because the past affects the present
Why is that enough time? It’s not as though North Ireland and Ireland are united. They’ve had plenty of time to figure out what they want to do.
Because, unlike Ireland, England isn’t enforcing this anymore, and hasn’t in forever
I don’t think that’s quite right. From what you said, if I understand, the enforcement, and recency are the determining factors? Nothing of justice or fairness? I suppose any atrocity or action is fine as long as the people who were alive at the time (we’ll ignore their descendants whose lives are obviously affected) are dead and gone for a few decades.
Why is 80 years enough? Where did you even get that number? I figure you started off with “this is ok”, then looked at how much time passed, then declared it was “enough”.
You’re not even responding to what I actually wrote anymore.
I don’t really agree. I’m responding to the thesis of your first comment regarding the arab countries having had enough time to get over the borders they were given. Why is that not what you wrote?
They tried. Pan-Arabism was a massive movement, especially under Nasser. It was opposed by America, western Europe, Israel, the Arab monarchies, and later on, the Islamic extremist movements these nations armed and funded in secular Arab nations.
Oh fuck off. Obviously Israel would still be there, but I meant the other countries
Tough talk from a nerd like you
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I’m taking bets on which slur it was. Any takers?
I got 5 on removed
I got 8 XiBux saying it was removed
They tried, Pan-Arabism was popular in the 50s with Nasser and his UAR with Syria. The Americans were worried that Pan-Arab Republic would be Soviet-aligned though so they provided significant support to Islamist parties like the Muslim Brotherhood to divide the Arab world
The US also provoked Gadaffi overthrow for the same reason: worried about socialist influence and threat of Arab unity. So they had him brutally executed by islamist rebels. Similar situation in Afghanistan with Osama bin ladin and the socialist government there, though that one came with some serious blowback. These are just a few examples, I urge you to research more about American imperialism in the Middle East, because the United States has played a very major role in the region since the end of the second world war.