I was curious how common it is to be, say, a leftist in a very conservative area.
My county, family, and school are all very conservative. It makes it a bit intimidating to engage in any political discussion. I also rarely get to hear leftist opinion anywhere in person, which means i need to devote a lot of time to considering and thinking about arguments that are probably already solved.
Are you, or have you been, in a similar situation?
Some of my family members talk about how good the conservative party is and they’ll kick out all the “nonconformists”. I just politely remind them that their party leaders hate me, as a nonconformist, and would also kick me out. It seems to briefly confuse them, but they assure me I’m “one of the good ones” and wouldn’t be kicked out. The leopards won’t eat my face, I’m sure
I’m left of many in my family, several of whom are in the christian nationalist side of things (as best I can tell), one of whom basically worships trump, and others who are mostly right of (US) center. However, they’re all on the other side of the world from me.
Rural Japan is interesting. Japan’s politics don’t fit neatly in the same platforms that would be familiar to those in the US. Even “conservatives” are overwhelmingly in favor of social programs that would be anathema in the US. People in the countryside here range from ultra-conservative to live-and-let-live.
I doubt any would be for legalization of cannabis (where even speaking too positively of it online can get someone in trouble), nor for removing the koseki system (TL;DR every Japanese citizen has a koseki. Families can have exactly one name except in cases of foreign marriage where citizen can keep their name. non-citizens cannot have a koseki. Marriage must be between someone with a vagina and a penis (whether those are from birth of surgical doesn’t matter) to have the same koseki and the same rights).
I doubt most people would care much about same-sex relationships nor trans people in general as there’s a long history of things like that in Japan.
Exposure to foreigners in general tends to help dispel myths and racism generally and most people in my immediate area realize I’m a decent guy who cares about his family and his village. I’m sure some people hate me because of my skin color, but nothing I can do about that, but I think that would be people in the village rather than my immediate neighbors.
Rural Japan in some areas and demographics votes more for parties to the left. The JCP (Japan Communist Party whose name no longer really fits IMO), has been pushing hard in my area. We’ll have to see how things shake out.
My entire family is maga, which is awful, but it’s literally just them. Otherwise I’m in an urban city, in an educated and liberal profession, and dating an awesome guy with a very sweet family. Being surrounded by normal and healthy people really makes my interactions with my family feel that much worse. :) Sometimes I’ll bother to tell them they’re wrong, but it doesn’t matter. They’re not acting out of reason. They’re acting out of hatred and avarice.
at least you dont live with them. it would be problematic if you have to live with them and hear them rant everyda.
I live in Texas… I consider myself Progressive… yeah it sucks. Only saving grace is I live in a city and most all my friends are liberal, so I can be open with them.
Outside of there though, i used to have to stay quiet, but lately, if someone brings up something political, I very much am more outspoken about telling them my thoughts. I usually get disgusted looks, but don’t care.
Some though, are truly just ignorant. Was talking with one person about Madhani and she asked “isn’t he trying to make everything islam there?” I told her about all the things he’s doing, including a coop grocery store for lower prices and she was genuinely surprised.
Was talking with one person about Madhani and she asked “isn’t he trying to make everything islam there?”
I just can’t with this kind of person. And apparently we’re in a country full of them.
I mean how fucking thoughtless do you need to be to hear that and not question it? It’s so fucking embarrassing, honestly
I live in Kentucky, so I’m in a similar boat. It’s very isolating. It’s frustrating to know that no matter how I vote, Democrat or third party, it really isn’t going to make a difference. My goal at this point is to raise my daughter to be a kind, empathetic, honest person, despite what she might see from other people around her.
KY crew unite! Charles Booker in November would be a pleasant surprise
I live in a very blue area, but most of my coworkers are conservative. I spend a lot of time at work so inevitably political topics come up here and there. I have to handle them with kid gloves when we do talk politics, but they do extend respect to me and can agree to disagree with me. Well, as respectful as they can be considering some of their conservative political beliefs.
deleted by creator
I have slowly but efficiently removed every single Republican from my life (except for my grandmother, because I love her to death).
If I find out that you are a Republican, that will be the last voluntary interaction we have.
I have eliminated all from both parties. They both are the problem. They both are guilty of genocide… even little precious AOC
🙄
I live in Canada and on an island where the capital city is historically extremely liberal and leftist, but immediately outside of that city it is conservative country all around. Its pretty wild living 25 minutes out of the city where I can go from being out in full pride gear to feeling less and less safe the closer I get to home.
This was two years ago but I was in Canada for a business trip and in Montreal, was ridiculously liberal. I mean colored hair, piercings and furries walking in the street without a care in the world. Then we drove about 1.5 hours into the woods and I saw fucking MAGA flags? In Canada?
I think the urban/rural divide is a global phenomenon, but yeah some of my fellow Canadians are truly unhinged. My next door neighbour (not rural) was sporting his Trump 2020 hat well into the 20’s and had openly hateful views that he couldn’t wait to tell you about. I didn’t get it - it’s not like he was able to vote for him - but I guess MAGA isn’t meant to be understood.
We’ve always been a little american. For the people who broadcast TV is still relevant for, we get overwhelmingly more US channels than Canadian content. We’re also a petrodollar and have a crazy large cattle industry. Something like 66% of Canadians live within 100km of the border, and if you expand that to 200km it becomes 80% - just a day trip away.
Canadians have always had this image of being a cuddly, polite, apologetic people, but it doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny. Especially if you’re indigenous.
Yeah MACA/MAGA is unfortunately a very real thing here. On the island it was mostly just a lot of Fuck Trudeau flags.
Practically 100%.
I live in the only red district in Hawaii. I have a few anarchist friends and left leaning folks I cruise with, but by and large , if anyone here is political, they are maga.
That being said, I do go work on progressive campaigns in progressive areas. But here it’s red red red.
I’m in Missouri, but in a major city here, so there’s a big mix.
The inner-city is strongly liberal, as in we support our own taxation because we like the services liberal and even have a free commuter train line. The suburbs are deep, deep red, and they think they should dictate policy to us because they commute into the city often.
I am an anarchist in rural GA, so… completely surrounded.
My friend group consists of a mix of people on the “far-right” wing and the “far-left” wing. Some of them are political active, some are active politicians. None of them are racists. My experience is that they all want the same for our society, they just disagree on how to get there. All discussions are civil and we don’t think less of them on the opposite wing.
Disclaimer: I’m not in the US. Obviously.
I bet at least one of your “far right” friends is a racist.
I would probably actually put money on it.
I’m curious what makes them “far right,” but not enough for you to think less of them. Do you have any ideals whatsoever, or do you just think they’re all created equal?
I cannot think of a single “far right” concept that would not make me think less of a person for believing.
I’m pretty sure they aren’t.
For the longest time in Denmark the most racist party was a left wing party. Their followers are often those who have the least resources, so they don’t vote on the suits on the far-right wing. I don’t get why it seems to be the opposite in the US.
The most far-right party we currently have don’t spend too much time on emigrational issues, but they still have this stance:
Over the past 40 years, Denmark has undergone the largest population change ever. Immigration has had major consequences for Denmark, not only in terms of terrorist risk, social tensions, economic challenges, crime and religious requirements, but also culturally. Liberal Alliance believes that the influence of cultures that are contrary to the values and fundamental freedoms on which Danish society is based should be countered. Free and liberal societies do not arise by themselves. They must be defended in order to be preserved.
Asylum
Therefore, the Liberal Alliance wants to put an end to spontaneous asylum, which is given to asylum seekers standing at the Danish border. Asylum should be given to those people who are most in need. That is why we want to abolish spontaneous asylum, as it is primarily given to people who are relatively resourceful and therefore need less asylum compared to other groups such as f.ex. quota refugees. If you have managed to get all the way to the Danish border and are not a refugee, you have less need for asylum than people who are outright refugees and seek protection from war, conflict and destruction.
Nationality
Obtaining citizenship in Denmark is a gift. It is not a right. The Liberal Alliance wants to tighten the requirements for citizenship, because we believe that there are a number of requirements and expectations attached to the privilege of becoming a citizen in a liberal democracy. We want to have greater certainty that nye citizens have understood what it takes to be a democratic citizen than is the case today.
We want citizens who apply for citizenship to be subjected to a profiling that analyzes their behavior ift. some defined requirements and expectations. If a citizen f.ex. ad has repeatedly hailed terrorist acts, threatening other citizens ifm. apostasy from a religion, acted hostile or threatening towards homosexuals or has acted as informants towards authorities in countries Denmark does not cooperate with, this will count down in the assessment of whether there is reason to believe that they will comply with applicable law and respect the spirit of the basic law.
The profiling is submitted to the Committee on citizenship, which makes a decision on whether the citizen should be set to receive citizenship by law. Read more about our immigration policy here.
Integration
The best way to integrate foreigners in Denmark is to ensure that they enter the labour market. Bl.a. know that it pays better to be at work, rather than on transfer income.
By coming out to a workplace, people get a better knowledge of Danish culture and Danish norms. It also provides an individual responsibility for one’s own existence when one gets out of passive support and starts earning one’s own money. This is the path to good integration.
In addition, the Liberal Alliance will fight parallel societies by taking a stand against social control on, among other things.a. our educational institutions. We will do this specifically by banning the so-called prayer rooms, which are largely used to retain Muslim students in religious dogmas.
Those positions are racist, just not overtly so.
I agree. And I think a lot of the people voting on that party will try to make it sound like it’s not, or simply look the other way and ignore that stance from the party.
Here is one of our left wing parties:
Contempt for Danish values
We have received far too many foreigners who have neither the ability, desire or willingness to be integrated in Denmark, and who came here alone because the Danes have built one of the world’s most generous societies. The result is large, isolated parallel societies, where immigrants from Islamic countries for almost two generations have been able to live unhindered according to the rules, the way of life, the habits and power structures that they brought to Denmark: clan rule, gender division, violent and patriarchal ways of life, women’s oppression and the Koran as a guideline in life.
While many of them live among themselves in a backward and violent code of honor, they despise the Danes, who otherwise have to pay the price for their social fraud, crime, lazy attitude towards education and work, the destruction of public housing and the parasite on public coffers in general.
Not integration – but assimilation
For more than half a century, an irresponsible political majority has allowed immigration from Muslim countries, which has cost the Danes hundreds of billions of dollars that we could otherwise have spent on patching the holes in our own welfare society.
We should not be satisfied with a superficial ”integration”; we want assimilation: sincere recognition of and empathy for Danish values. Only assimilation can prevent Denmark from falling apart over time.
The rise of Islam must be stopped
The Danish People’s party rejects all demands for special treatment of Muslims. Everywhere in Denmark we will oppose gender-segregated swimming pools, prayer rooms and ostentatious mosques, minarets and prayer calls in public spaces. We will not allow Muslim children and their parents to intimidate teachers from using drawings of their prophet in teaching, and we will not take into account, let alone celebrate, Muslim holidays. We will not allow Islamic preachers to radicalize other Muslims, in prison or at large, and we will protect the Muslim women who will break out of their religious and Norm-bound prison.
More repatriations
The integration of Muslim foreigners in Denmark has failed. From the first immigrants arrived, we are today faced with two and three generations, born and raised in Denmark, who expose Denmark to the same as nye challenges: some young Muslims have undergone a neo-Islamic revival, which shows that education, steady work and a good Danish are not a guarantee of a harmonious view of the generous country that welcomed their parents.
If Denmark is to be preserved, we must resort to the repatriation of those who want to replace our form of government and our values, and who put the koran and sharia in place of the Basic Law and the Bible.
It should take precedence that the Danes can continue their lives as Danes in a Denmark they know, which future generations can also regard as their own country.
Most of the people I interact with have different viewpoints, and I consider it a positive. The danger is never examining your beliefs and just accept them, even when new facts come up or the environment changes.
I can certainly appreciate the sentiment behind this comment but I would have to challenge its applicability in a deep red part of the US. The danger here is expressing incompatible beliefs to people who vocally and energetically talk about rounding up and “shooting all of the democrats” they can find. As much as I would like to accept the fact that they have the right to this opinion, I am also self-aware enough that I chose to keep my own politics (independent but left-leaning) to myself.
Would they really kill me? Probably not. Would I be immediately treated with hostility? Almost certainly.
I think there is a stark difference between “different” and “opposing” viewpoints and I imagine it would be nice living in a place where being open-minded was a common virtue. Unfortunately for me that isn’t really viable at the moment.
I have not experienced what you have in the deep red part of the US. There can be actors on both sides who don’t act in good faith. I was looking at it more from an exchange of viewpoints instead of a dominant / submissive dynamic. When having an exchange of ideas with someone with an opposing viewpoint, it always valuable to understand why they have those beliefs. Then, once you establish that you can ask what facts would have to be known for their viewpoint to shift.
Thank you for clarifying and I don’t disagree at all with the points you raise. Unfortunately in application, the higher ideals seem to be lost on these red-hat troglodytes who are in the majority in my local area. I used to believe similarly that minds could be changed with rational and candid discussion, but my own experience has been that MAGA types just double down when presented with anything that doesn’t align with what they have come to believe; until they are negatively affected by one of the horrible things they support of course.
I haven’t given up entirely but active avoidance appears to be the simplest near-term solution. The problem is the currently dominant political party has done a very effective job of demonizing anything and anyone with an opposing viewpoint to their proponents. That alone makes open discourse almost impossible.
My state is overwhelmingly conservative and I stick out like a sore thumb that wants universal healthcare.
I filter out the vast, vast majority of people and basically have a dozen people I know and hang out with who are also not conservative.
My whole life has been a weird back and forth of this. I grew up in a hyper conservative household and lived in a hyper conservative town, but I wanted to go to art school. So I moved to Seattle.
Fast forward I was a conservative in Seattle of all places, and racist af to boot. Being 18 coming off the heels of my family meant I had no original thoughts and just repeated everything my mom taught me.
I quickly learned better, both through college education but also meeting the people I’d been brought up racist against. Being in a multicultural hub like Seattle means having to see the charicatures my mom had painted for me live, breathe, and talk to me, and it’s hard for anyone with 2 braincells to run together to keep thinking those things when you interact with the people daily.
I stayed in the area after college and became increasingly more leftist. Then at a point I ended up moving to a small conservative town again due to financial issues.
Here I faced the flip side of what I’d experienced in Seattle. I’m white so everyone would try to pull me into conversation about immgrants or people on welfare or LGBT people and I was the sole voice against those views. I tried to reason with them, provide an alternative perspective, and over the years I’ve had mixed results. But the thing I’ll say that was different was the amount of violence and threat I’ve felt being the outsider in these communities.
I said some straight up racist shit when I was younger in Seattle. I lost friends and reputation over it but I never felt afraid. In the small town though, I lost jobs, was threatened, flipped off, verbally abused… I never had anyone physically attack me but it came close a few times. And the only thing I said in those areas was things like “they aren’t bad people because they are Mexican, they’re bad people because they did X to you, Debra.”
The racism and homophobia was the biggest hurdle honestly. People in that sphere dont think the things they are thinking are wrong. Often they only know what they have somehow been slighted, and they misatteibute their frustrations to race or politics. “I can’t afford groceries because so many (insert race) people are on food stamps.” No, you can’t afford groceries because your work isn’t paying you anything but beans and Walmart is the only grocery store in town. There are so many people on food stamps because they are socio-economically disadvantaged. Perhaps if you can’t afford groceries you might also qualify for food stamps."
But that’s hard to quantify, it’s easier to blame the have-nots as being morally lacking than it is to be mad at systems that are hard to quantify.
