Poison Ivy’s explicitly stated goals are mass genocide, how is that something to root for. She’s not advocating for moving to solar or nuclear and reducing emissions.
That’s the point. You have a Villain who wants something good (stop the destruction of nature) and then pair it with something very evil (genocide). It’s a very common trope in media. It leads to the “Hero” of the story being able to defend the status quo again and again without ever challenging it.
That is a can of worms about on par with a leftist asking “In what order should I read theory”? There a 1001 correct answers, and there is no exact timeline about how you can delve into the character.
I have a decent bit of superhero knowledge and I dive into it every now and then, but I will not claim that I am some absolute authority on this subject and that I can give you a definitive list.
I will however recommend “Batman: Year One” as it is a good place to start with the character and that is considered one of the best comics of all time.
For a Batman/Joker story I would recommend the “Killing Joke” series, but I will say that is is fairly mature in its content, as it really attempts to delve into the Joker’s psychology as a tragic but evil character.
The Batman stories in the “Flashpoint” Series is fun as a side story as it follows a world where the Flash makes one change and alters all of history, and Batman ends up being Thomas Wayne (the dad) rather then Bruce Wayne (the son), and this is a much more aggressive and violent Batman, with a pretty shady moral code as Thomas goes full capitalist and is pretty evil.
Not begrudging your interests, but I think this post kind of summarizes why I have never been able to read any western comics.
I like really concrete beginning/end points for fictional media. I like to be able to say “This is book 1, I can start here. This is book 4, it’s the last one”. I also hate jumping into any series in the middle, even if it is absolutely designed for it. Anytime I have thought about trying to read any western comics (or warhammer on the same note) it just seems like a massive ambigious undertaking.
I get that feeling when it comes to comics since their are a lot of reboots and stories in alternative universes and resets and stuff like this.
I tried to get a better grip on Batman during the last days. The comics recommended where great but diving deeper has become very difficult since I just can’t figure out what is canon and what isn’t.
Getting into Warhammer is a lot easier in my opinion (don’t get me wrong, it can still be daunting without proper guidance).
Most Warhammer book series are contained in their own.
You don’t need to know the entire universe to understand the Eisenhorn books or Gaunt’s Ghosts or Ciaphis Cain.
Knowing more about the universe might give you a broader understanding but it’s not required to fully enjoy them at all.
The biggest hurdle is deciding on where to start. There are a lot of good starting points. Picking your first novel is pretty much depending on what you like.
“Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Isn’t that too harsh? Not in the least. When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense?”
I totally agree with the sentiment, but when does one know that one knows enough though? How deep does one have to dig? How much does one have to research to be able to contribute?
Harry Potter is the champion of doing this as Harry manages to support a status quo that literally does nothing but work against him.
It’s like JK insists a corrupt system is the only possible system and is perfect because some bad apple will eventually trip over some rule or clause that saves the day at the 11th hour so… “It’s all good!”
I may have used the wrong wording. I think some villains have good motives but bad execution. I also used this post as a jumping off point of the whole trope rather than commentary on Poison Ivy specifically.
I know next to nothing about this version of Batman, Ivy and Freeze so I can’t speak to them, hell I can’t speak about a lot of Batman villains, this post just reminded me of this weird trend.
The villain that came to mind for me was the air bender guy from Legend of Korra, from what little I can recall from that show. Something about anarchy, I think. The antagonists from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier have been said to fit this trope as well but I can’t say for sure as I’ve never watched that show.
Poison Ivy’s explicitly stated goals are mass genocide, how is that something to root for. She’s not advocating for moving to solar or nuclear and reducing emissions.
That’s the point. You have a Villain who wants something good (stop the destruction of nature) and then pair it with something very evil (genocide). It’s a very common trope in media. It leads to the “Hero” of the story being able to defend the status quo again and again without ever challenging it.
I understand, but the villain doesn’t lead with “Let’s stop the destruction of nature”, they lead with “Everyone should die”.
I don’t think Poison Ivy ever actually makes a compelling argument for conservationism and anti-capitalism. They just really REALLY hate people.
That might be the case. You seem to know more about Batman than I do so I will do as Mao suggests and shut up before I haven’t researched the topic.
Any Batman comics you could recommend?
That is a can of worms about on par with a leftist asking “In what order should I read theory”? There a 1001 correct answers, and there is no exact timeline about how you can delve into the character.
I have a decent bit of superhero knowledge and I dive into it every now and then, but I will not claim that I am some absolute authority on this subject and that I can give you a definitive list.
I will however recommend “Batman: Year One” as it is a good place to start with the character and that is considered one of the best comics of all time.
For a Batman/Joker story I would recommend the “Killing Joke” series, but I will say that is is fairly mature in its content, as it really attempts to delve into the Joker’s psychology as a tragic but evil character.
The Batman stories in the “Flashpoint” Series is fun as a side story as it follows a world where the Flash makes one change and alters all of history, and Batman ends up being Thomas Wayne (the dad) rather then Bruce Wayne (the son), and this is a much more aggressive and violent Batman, with a pretty shady moral code as Thomas goes full capitalist and is pretty evil.
The Long Halloween is also pretty good!
Thank you. Follow up question, where can I read them? DC Infinite isn’t available in my country (I also wouldn’t mind putting on a pirat hat)
Not begrudging your interests, but I think this post kind of summarizes why I have never been able to read any western comics.
I like really concrete beginning/end points for fictional media. I like to be able to say “This is book 1, I can start here. This is book 4, it’s the last one”. I also hate jumping into any series in the middle, even if it is absolutely designed for it. Anytime I have thought about trying to read any western comics (or warhammer on the same note) it just seems like a massive ambigious undertaking.
Warhammer at this point have like 1000 or more books.
I get that feeling when it comes to comics since their are a lot of reboots and stories in alternative universes and resets and stuff like this. I tried to get a better grip on Batman during the last days. The comics recommended where great but diving deeper has become very difficult since I just can’t figure out what is canon and what isn’t.
Getting into Warhammer is a lot easier in my opinion (don’t get me wrong, it can still be daunting without proper guidance). Most Warhammer book series are contained in their own. You don’t need to know the entire universe to understand the Eisenhorn books or Gaunt’s Ghosts or Ciaphis Cain. Knowing more about the universe might give you a broader understanding but it’s not required to fully enjoy them at all. The biggest hurdle is deciding on where to start. There are a lot of good starting points. Picking your first novel is pretty much depending on what you like.
Can you please share that quote from Mao?
“No investigation, no right to speak”.
“Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Isn’t that too harsh? Not in the least. When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense?”
-Mao in Oppose Book Worship
I totally agree with the sentiment, but when does one know that one knows enough though? How deep does one have to dig? How much does one have to research to be able to contribute?
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Poison Ivy is malthusian.
Harry Potter is the champion of doing this as Harry manages to support a status quo that literally does nothing but work against him.
It’s like JK insists a corrupt system is the only possible system and is perfect because some bad apple will eventually trip over some rule or clause that saves the day at the 11th hour so… “It’s all good!”
I may have used the wrong wording. I think some villains have good motives but bad execution. I also used this post as a jumping off point of the whole trope rather than commentary on Poison Ivy specifically.
I know next to nothing about this version of Batman, Ivy and Freeze so I can’t speak to them, hell I can’t speak about a lot of Batman villains, this post just reminded me of this weird trend.
The villain that came to mind for me was the air bender guy from Legend of Korra, from what little I can recall from that show. Something about anarchy, I think. The antagonists from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier have been said to fit this trope as well but I can’t say for sure as I’ve never watched that show.
Yeah, Poison Ivy is a misanthrope.