-- A panel discussion on the state of the progressive movement in the United States featuring Brianna Wu (@briannawu on Twitter), Executive Director of Rebel...
Ok she seems awesome, and I’ve heard the PSL endorsed by at least a few Marxists I trust, but what do yall think about them and their platform? Any weird gotchas in there or history of grossness from her or the organization?
I believe some northeast chapters have had SA cover up accusations levied against them, but I had my own not great experience with my local branch in the Midwest. Nowhere near anything like that, just more of a “this branch needs to figure out what they’re doing, and they’re actively leading me on and wasting my time” sorta thing.
That said, I’ve voted for them in the past, and if they’re on the ballot, they’ll get my vote. I just dont work with them locally anymore.
I only know of one case in the philly branch, and like from what I heard, it was an understandably messy situation, but that seems more like a problem in any type of organization, not specific to the PSL. It seems to me like people conflate the branch/national not airing dirty laundry in public with them doing some kind of nefarious cover up.
PSL are not trots.
PSL supports Cuba, Vietnam, China and the historical USSR.
PSL did branch from a trot organization, which might be why you think this. This is because most surviving leftist organizations in America post WW2 redscare were trot organizations.
If a member of PSL was pro-NATO they are contradicting a fundamental, non-negotiable part of the party line and should be spoken to by local leadership
That’s historically accurate but doesn’t in any way describe the politics or operation of the party today. We are straight up MLs who have very intentionally shed that trot shit a long time ago.
This is incorrect and you should edit your post to reduce the wrecker impact of your comment. You have received enough evidence from others to justify this course of action.
If you need more, listen to PSL’s podcast or read their news website. They are very strategically an American party. They do not voice direct and unequivocal support for nations that America is in direct conflict with because it’s politically difficult to do that and not get marginalized. If you listen to their talking points, it’s clear they support China and Russia against the USA, but they’re also from the anti-war movement so they use their anti-war rhetoric to avoid being so obvious about their pro-Russia position vis-a-vis the Ukraine conflict. They don’t want people to die. They also don’t want to support one capitalist oligarchy over another, but they absolutely support anti-imperialism.
They are also very clearly focused on revolution here in the USA and not focused on a permanent global revolution in every country.
There’s basically nothing Trotskyist about them. They aren’t ultras, but it can sound like it because they are Americans navigating the brainrot in America caused by American propaganda.
They are a democratic centralist party. They have strict discipline for their members. They have strong vetting. They are building a mass movement informed explicitly by Lenin’s writings. Honestly the worst thing about them is that they aren’t incorporating enough Mao, Fanon, Ho, and other Global South theories into their organizing.
I had a PSL member take a pro-NATO position discussing balkanization with me in a public forum. If you’re as demcent as you’re touting, if the membership is that rigorously vetted, that’s grounds for me to be sus.
Yeah, that’s pretty sus, I agree. You won’t find any official positions of the PSL being pro-NATO. It’s so incongruous with the party line that I have to wonder if the person was actually a member of PSL or if their chapter is poorly governed.
puts an end to Brianna Wu
Ok she seems awesome, and I’ve heard the PSL endorsed by at least a few Marxists I trust, but what do yall think about them and their platform? Any weird gotchas in there or history of grossness from her or the organization?
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So just got some greyzone brainworms
We’ve all had 'em at least once.
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I believe some northeast chapters have had SA cover up accusations levied against them, but I had my own not great experience with my local branch in the Midwest. Nowhere near anything like that, just more of a “this branch needs to figure out what they’re doing, and they’re actively leading me on and wasting my time” sorta thing.
That said, I’ve voted for them in the past, and if they’re on the ballot, they’ll get my vote. I just dont work with them locally anymore.
I only know of one case in the philly branch, and like from what I heard, it was an understandably messy situation, but that seems more like a problem in any type of organization, not specific to the PSL. It seems to me like people conflate the branch/national not airing dirty laundry in public with them doing some kind of nefarious cover up.
I don’t know the details, but you do make a good point.
They’re trots so don’t ask em about AES butif they’re on your ballot it’s a virtual guarantee they’re your best option.PSL are not trots. PSL supports Cuba, Vietnam, China and the historical USSR.
PSL did branch from a trot organization, which might be why you think this. This is because most surviving leftist organizations in America post WW2 redscare were trot organizations.
Links to some random PSL publication articles to prove my point. https://www.liberationschool.org/category/china-2/
https://www.liberationnews.org/tag/cuba/
https://www.liberationnews.org/how-vietnam-defeated-u-s-imperialism/
https://www.liberationschool.org/theory-and-revolution-addressing-the-break-of-ideological-continuity/
Ah thanks for that. I knew they descended from a trot org and a member I know had a pretty disgusting pro-NATO stance on something so I just assumed.
If a member of PSL was pro-NATO they are contradicting a fundamental, non-negotiable part of the party line and should be spoken to by local leadership
ah now I remember! they were both-sidesing balkanization, placing an emphasis on the bosnian genocide
PSL are Marcyites, who are Trots that accidentally stumbled into being MLs.
That’s historically accurate but doesn’t in any way describe the politics or operation of the party today. We are straight up MLs who have very intentionally shed that trot shit a long time ago.
PSL published a book last year about why China is good and sent a delegation to meet with Diaz-Canal in Cuba last month
This is incorrect and you should edit your post to reduce the wrecker impact of your comment. You have received enough evidence from others to justify this course of action.
If you need more, listen to PSL’s podcast or read their news website. They are very strategically an American party. They do not voice direct and unequivocal support for nations that America is in direct conflict with because it’s politically difficult to do that and not get marginalized. If you listen to their talking points, it’s clear they support China and Russia against the USA, but they’re also from the anti-war movement so they use their anti-war rhetoric to avoid being so obvious about their pro-Russia position vis-a-vis the Ukraine conflict. They don’t want people to die. They also don’t want to support one capitalist oligarchy over another, but they absolutely support anti-imperialism.
They are also very clearly focused on revolution here in the USA and not focused on a permanent global revolution in every country.
There’s basically nothing Trotskyist about them. They aren’t ultras, but it can sound like it because they are Americans navigating the brainrot in America caused by American propaganda.
They are a democratic centralist party. They have strict discipline for their members. They have strong vetting. They are building a mass movement informed explicitly by Lenin’s writings. Honestly the worst thing about them is that they aren’t incorporating enough Mao, Fanon, Ho, and other Global South theories into their organizing.
edited, but also maybe chill.
I had a PSL member take a pro-NATO position discussing balkanization with me in a public forum. If you’re as demcent as you’re touting, if the membership is that rigorously vetted, that’s grounds for me to be sus.
Yeah, that’s pretty sus, I agree. You won’t find any official positions of the PSL being pro-NATO. It’s so incongruous with the party line that I have to wonder if the person was actually a member of PSL or if their chapter is poorly governed.
could be they were overstating their involvment too