I have a prediction: Airlines won’t ackowlege that personal trackers as an effective means to track luggage becuase they’re trying to figure out how to force you to buy their own trackers.
Frankly I’m trying to figure out how a system that even allows for luggage to be lost without any accountability is allowed to exist in two thousand twenty fucking three
Lobbying is easy: “we’ll give you free first class flights if you don’t pass any laws against us”
deleted by creator
Cause somehow we’ve been convinced that if something somehow works once, in one specific scenario - then it must in its entirety be ok for all eternity
(as long as it makes money of course lol)
Easy: doing so would cost too much money, for not enough profit gain.
Aka, there isn’t enough competition between airlines
This is a pile of horseshit right here.
Service in airlines was at its absolute worst when competition was at its tightest. It’s shit now, yes, but during the height of deregulation and “innovations” like the cattle car airlines it was far, far, far worse.
I’m still trying to figure out why they don’t already use trackers. RFID tags are dirt cheap and it’s 20 years old technology. They already have a process where they add barcode stickers at checkin, slap some RFID in there too.
They certainly can and do use a tracking system.
I get notifications from Delta every time my bag moves once it’s checked in - loaded, unloaded, what pickup.
There’s nothing really wrong with barcodes. NFC/RFID would be a logical upgrade though, and just has to integrate into the existing system.
Still an additional cost they’d rather avoid.
Surprised they don’t offer it as a $20 up charge…
I think you mean BLE. As far as I understand it, RFID doesn’t have any particular advantage over barcodes for tracking luggage.
Barcodes need line of sight with scanners and close range. RFID detectors can sense tags at larger distances and just based on general proximity.
BLE is also an option, comparison to RFID would depend on setup particularities. RFID would be the more natural choice for throwaway, recyclable stickers that just need to store a short “dumb” ID.
RFID is easier to read, so you could set up scanners at more places. Also easier to walk around looking for a bag and know that it’s somewhere in this pile.
You have to change a lot of equipment to make it useful. Most major airports have very complicated machinery that uses the barcodes, which feeds into the baggage handlers. I don’t know how they fix that machinery to make BLE worth it.
They don’t have to convert their entire luggage handling setup to RFID, just use it to augment their lost luggage detection.
Add RFID readers at strategic points and feed their data into a computer, which in turn feeds it to a replicated database. When a piece of luggage is lost look in that database to see where’s the last RFID blip. Also very easy to let the customer see their luggage positions on a website.
I could see airlines banning the use of these before that ever happens. If I’m not mistaken one or two already have.
I don’t know how air tags even work. So they have a cellular connection or something? How are they able to be tracked?
They use a newer low-voltage Bluetooth radio that has a very limited range. When another Apple device like an iPhone, iPad, laptop, etc. is in range then that device will ping Apples servers with an updated location for the air tag in question.
Crowd sourcing. AirTags and other similar trackers emit weak, short range Bluetooth beacons that any iPhone can quietly detect and report along with where they were when the beacon was seen. There are privacy implications for sure, but it works.
AirTags actually use an encryption scheme. The AirTag will broadcast a public key. The private key is stored in your iPhone and iCloud keyring. Once your phone fetches the location reports from apple’s online service it can decrypt the actual location of the AirTag.
They use a combination of Bluetooth and nfc and maybe some wideband spec (though I think the wide and stuff is just for when you go in searching) . Basically anytime it’s near another iPhone, the iPhone picks up the tag ID and sends it in.
If it detects a lot of checkins to a phone that isn’t on the same Apple ID, the AirTag will make noise (as an anti-stalking measure)
I believe a recent patch also allows android to report in status, or maybe that’s coming but still in the works. Not sure.
Android won’t track airtags, but will allow 3rd party tags to work via “find my phone” (becoming “find my device”). They have coordinated with Apple however for anti stalking measures. Both can detect longer term presence of each other’s tags, and sound a warning. Apparently they have delayed the release, to allow apple to implement the protocols properly before they do.
Google’s are simple BLE beacons. They ping out periodically, and any android phones nearby note and report its existence and strength (along with their location).
They use a low power Bluetooth (BLE) technology to send beacons that any iPhone can pick up and relay to Apple. They only work because many people have iPhones.
They’re Bluetooth beacons. Basically they transmit a very low power signal that any nearby iPhone (I think Android phones do it too now, but I’m not certain) can pick up. When a phone receives the signal it sends the information about the tag and the phone’s current location to the central server. You can then track the tag from there.
Happened on a recent flight with me. Company told us luggage was still on the origin airport, someone had an air tag and vehemently asked them to do a double check, and they miraculously found where it was supposed to be in the first place…
On a recent trip we just went up to the youngest looking baggage worker, showed them, asked very nicely, and they walked back and found it. Tipped em 20 bucks for 5 minutes of effort. They were super nice.
The airline was less than helpful, actively saying the bag was lost.
Take photos of your luggage before checking them. That way you can show the employees exactly what they’re looking for.
Luckily our bag was a very distinctive color with a large brand logo but yep
Ugly luggage unite!!
Tipped em 20 bucks
So we’re paying an extra baggage fee now?
The airline was less than helpful, actively saying the bag was lost.
The young baggage worker is the airline. They are a representative of the company.
The employee was an airport employee, not a specific airline employee.
I was under no obligation to tip, I didn’t mention money until he hustled, was very nice, and accomplished the task. I invented the idea of giving him money for his help, I was never prompted.
A fee is not a tip. A fee is mandatory, and issued prior to service, a tip is optional.
This guy saved a day of my vacation and I decided that fortunate exchange with him was worth 20 dollars at least, and he was thankful for the exchange.
You have no clue what you are talking about.
Would you be willing to pay $20 to make sure your bag made it to your destination?
Let’s cut to the chase:
-
For the cost of my ticket, I expect my bag to get there when I do, no further changes required.
-
We all acknowledge the industry is being shitty by not managing this problem.
-
My anecdote regarding the utility of an air tag, and the nice exchange I had with a non affiliated airport employee highlights the issue, and doesn’t condone it.
-
My choice to tip the employee was because he was very nice to me, and even technically subverted airport policy to specifically retrieve my bag. I appreciated him going out of his way, and possibly even carrying some risk for my benefit, not because I feel the value I tipped should be normally included for the service.
Any point you are trying to make about the “system” the industry or me being a rube for giving money away doesn’t hold water.
I’m capable of two thoughts at once:
-
The industry is fucked up, and providing bad service to the customer.
-
I found someone in the industry who isn’t benefiting from the corporate policy and practices in any way, they’re just a shift worker. I valued his attempt to provide good service, and I made my opinion and thanks known materially. This doesn’t mean I condone the industry habits.
For the cost of my ticket, I expect my bag to get there when I do, no further changes required.
No. That was the previous deal, the deal has been altered. You now have to pay an extra fee to ensure the bag gets to its destination, otherwise you roll the dice.
This doesn’t mean I condone the industry habits.
You enabled industry habits. Its the same reason why tipping in restaurants still exists, because people pay it. If the majority of people decided not to, then the culture of tipping would die out.
technically subverted airport policy to specifically retrieve my bag. I appreciated him going out of his way, and possibly even carrying some risk for my benefit,
This is enabling. Nothing has fundamentally changed with the current system, and there has been no feedback to the industry. So it will remain as it is.
When did I try to change the industry by interacting with the airPORT employee? I provided feedback via stern conversation with the airline rep, whatever little/nothing that does. I also strictly do not check a bag any more, so am no longer within that cost cycle.
The airPORT employee is not in the cycle you are inventing in your head. He is entirely separate from it, and benefits nothing at all from the airLINE practices.
The airPORT employee operated without any assumption of reward beyond a “thanks”, so his actions were free of financial feedback, because they were decided prior to knowledge of monetary incentive. Further the airLINE is not aware of, and did not profit from his action, so my tip did not 'enable" their practices, as the only information they digested from the exchange is my criticism of their failure.
Read the room dude, you don’t always have to agree with the crowd, but you’re obviously wrong on this one, and I’m all done talking to you
-
Unfortunately this is like feeding a dog from the table to get them to go away. You’re essentially rewarding bad behavior.
Unless there is ever an incentive to not lose your luggage or a punishment if they do the airlines will continually do this.
We’re suppose to tip airline workers now?
They tipped because they got an individual baggage handler to go find their specific bag for them…
That wasn’t their job, they did it out of kindness. Kindness can deserve a tip. There was no obligation
deleted by creator
How you doin’?
We tipped under no obligation, the guy specially went out of his way for me, and I thought that was special.
The guy literally salvaged a whole day of vacation for me
And that is exactly the point of tipping, at least for me. It’s like a reward for extraordinary service
I don’t come from somewhere with a tipping culture, but if someone came to me with an airtag tracker and said hey can you get my bag, and my job is to get your bags, I would happily just do my job instead of thinking “fuck you” and start to fight.
Shit I would even apologise for having lost it in the first place.
It would not even occur to me that someone would tip, or I would be getting one.
Happened to me on a recent trip to a country well known for crime.
Your luggage is lost sir, you’ll have to fill in a form.
My luggage is about 15m away behind that wall. Here, see this map. Go get it.
10 min later: Oh your luggage is here sir. Terribly sorry.
Not sure if incompetence or shenanigans but I got my luggage back.
I’ve heard the fix for lost luggage (in the USA) is unironically to put a flare gun or starter pistol in checked luggage (note, you do have to declare it and ensure it’s properly stored). Why? The airlines get their asses reamed by the ATF if they lose it. If I’m not mistaken, the same laws about firearms in checked luggage apply to a flaregun as they do a Browning M2. If they’re lax enough about following firearm laws to lose a flaregun then they’re lax enough to lose a high-caliber, fully automatic heavy machine gun.
It must be in a locked, hard sided case. You let TSA inspect it, then you get to keep the keys and they do not. It’s a common(?) trick for photographers with thousands of dollars of camera equipment to put a starter pistol in the camera case.
A flare gun is essentially a 3d printed single use .410 shotgun.
One we have is more the size of a 12 gauge shell, just a lot less kick.
I might be wrong, I’m not an expert here and every airline has their own rules on top of the federal ones. But I have flown with firearms and they always had to be in a separate, locked, hard sided case. I don’t remember any part of the check in process where I would have been able to put the case back in with the rest of my luggage. I definitely do not recommend just plopping your suitcase up there and saying “hey there’s a flare gun next to my socks” unless you have a lot of time to kill.
I probably should have been more specific by what I meant when I said, “properly stored”. I think you can put anything into the hard-sided case with the flaregun as I’ve heard photographers (as someone else mentioned), musicians, tech enthusiasts, etc will get a pelican case, put their cameras, computers, instruments, etc into the case with the flaregun. You’re right that you can’t just dump it into a dufflebag and call it a day, and I’m pretty sure I’ve heard that you can’t put a dufflebag inside the container with the flaregun, as I’ve heard they’ll tell you that it needs to be independently checked and stored in the luggage compartment.
To put it another way, the case isn’t transporting your clothes, it is transporting your flaregun and you’ve just happened to use any extra space to pack your clothes.
I flew American Airlines with a gun and it had to be in a hard locked case that I was able to put in my luggage to be checked. I had the keys. I had to pick up my luggage at the help center.
I don’t remember any part of the check in process where I would have been able to put the case back in with the rest of my luggage.
That’s odd. I’ve flown with a pistol several times and it’s always been the other way around. After TSA does their check the locked pistol case gets put back inside a piece of my checked luggage. What have they done with yours? Just tossed it on the conveyor belt like its another piece of luggage?
Just tossed it on the conveyor belt like its another piece of luggage?
Yeah, they just tagged it like another piece of luggage and sent it down the line. One airport it got spit out with my luggage in the baggage claim, another I had to pick it up from the lost luggage office.
Honestly I never thought about putting it in with my luggage. Partially because that’s where I had the ammo stored and wasn’t sure they could be in the same container even if the firearm was secured in it’s own. I hate being in airports enough as it is so I try to follow the instructions to a T.
Yeah, they just tagged it like another piece of luggage and sent it down the line.
Huh, maybe my secure (pistol) traveling cases are smaller than yours. I guess my larger fitted one could go on a conveyor belt okay but my smaller one would easily be lost if it wasn’t inside something else. Every airline has different rules though so the difference could also be that you are flying SouthWest while I’m normally on United / Frontier.
I just wish airtags didn’t require an apple device. Is there even an alternative to these tiny little things?
Samsung has its own “Smart Tags”. They should be better than Tile, since they rely on the Galaxy network and many more people have Samsung phones than Tile devices, but it’d be nice if Google released one compatible with all Android devices, instead of being stupidly tied to a specific brand.
Google announced just that earlier in the year; a tracking platform backed by any device with Google Play Services. A number of companies have announced support - including Tile, Pebblebee and Chipolo - but in typical Google fashion it’s not launched yet.
but in typical Google fashion it’s not launched yet.
And is likely to get shut down in a year or two…
And you have to watch a 30 second ad to use the network.
Tile is the closest but it has a much smaller user base since it depends on people having the tile app installed. Airtags pickup on most iphones since most people have “Find My” enabled.
Tile is garbage. I had multiple die without warning or notification, so I switched to airtags even though I have to track those with my iPad.
If you’re a tinkerer there’s a project called OpenHaystack that lets you make your own tags that leech off Apple’s Find My network. I’ve got a couple dozen of them at this point and they work flawlessly.
I’m a tinkerer but I have terrible tech skills. Do you think a project like that is beginner friendly?
Kinda? It’s fairly polished, but it does require a computer (or VM) running MacOS, a compatible microcontroller to act as a tag and a TTL adapter to program it. The programming itself is handled by the OpenHaystack software though.
https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack#how-to-use-openhaystack
I hope you know that apple is about to kill mail plugins https://www.idownloadblog.com/2023/06/15/macos-sonoma-legacy-plug-ins-apple-mail-extensions/ Hope it works with extensions as well
It will take a while, but once google launches its Find my device network. You will have plenty of alternatives that work on android.
Wheeeen??
They are waiting on Apple to add compatibility. It would be until year end by their press info. Source: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/05/apple-google-partner-on-an-industry-specification-to-address-unwanted-tracking/
Chippolo is making one for Google’s find my network that works just like Apple’s network. Can’t comment on the tracker itself because it’s a preorder, but theoretically it could be just as strong with the amount of Android devices around
There are standalone GPS trackers that report its location via a cellular connection. Typically they are used to track pets and the elderly in case they get lost, you might be able to find them relatively cheap at pet supply stores, but they do require a continuous paid subscription to work. Though they do have the benefit of working anywhere that has a cellular connection without relying on having specific brands of devices nearby.
If you don’t need remote tracking, GPS trackers that only log to internal memory also exist. Those don’t require a subscription because they only need to listen for GPS signals and not transmit.
Oh I’ve looked for a while, as I am not a fan of apple software, but these things are amazing. True innovation. I think the only reason apple is the only ones with something out there like this is because they have the infrastructure for it. Samsung or internet providers are others in the position to do something like this, but I’m still waiting
They aren’t some GPS tags, which would just gobble through the battery, they ping the nearest apple device. You can spoof an air tag with an esp if you are into that, but you still need an apple device. The real magic is again, the infrastructure. Luckily for me, my wife has a mac =P
So innovative it’s just a Tile. They do have the advantage of having really good coverage in the US, but I don’t see the innovation.
Directional location is pretty innovative.
I suspect device coverage, relative to tile, even in countries not dominated by Apple, composes of a couple orders of magnitude more devices.
Tile didn’t use Ultra Wideband until after AirTags existed, and I think even now it’s only the Tile Pro that has it.
I used Tile for years before AirTags came along. The difference is night and day.
Tile is pure garbage. I say this as someone who has used both.
So I have a Mac and an iPad but a pixel phone and I’m about to do some international travel. I passed on getting a tile because of the smaller network. Do you think airtags have been useful for you without having an iPhone?
My wife has an iPhone, but I have an old iPad hooked to her account. I can see where all the air tags are, and locate them or activate the noise function. For traveling, there’s no real benefit to having an iPhone vs an iPad.
The main bonus that the newer IPhones have is the ability to locate them like a homing device. If you’re within 30 feet, it will actually tell you which direction and how far away it is. Like a compass, it points you towards the air tag, letting you get to within a foot or so to find it. For locating a lost item at home, it’s much easier to use the iPhone.
But for gps tracking, the basic Bluetooth check in network with apple devices gives you the location of all the devices, within a few meters or so.
Samsung’s SmartThings tracker is apparently just as good, strangely enough
Apple would make so much money by making such an AirTag, but maybe they want you to buy an iPhone too…
I love my Samsung Galaxy SmartTag!
deleted by creator
Chipolo is making some that will work with Android FindMy
Airlines are a disgrace to the gift of flight.
Nice job, you took human flight, something once hailed as breaking the chains imposed on our species by the gods above, and in the name of profit made it the most tedious and insufferable thing imaginable.
People chased the lowest fares possible too though. “Hey, I can save $5 by sitting in this even tinier space where they charge for taking a piss! I can hold it for 3 hours.”
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=8bmGff5f-Ug
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
You want a good flight experience? No problem.
You want a good flight experience that is also cheap? No sir.
The airlines just cater to the market, if people were able and willing to pay double, things would be vastly better.
If people could pay double, things would cost double. Quality likely wouldn’t change.
Source for this hypothesis?
It’s called Free Market Capitalism. If the market can bear double the cost, the prices will rise to meet the level the market can bear.
I see you got as far as supply and demand in your economics course before you zoned out. Competition specifically 3 competitors has been shown to apply sufficient pressure to stop price gouging. Airlines profit margins are at 8% which indicates sufficient completion.
Too bad the regulations to support competition and disband oligarchies is so pathetically weak.
Incidentally, why is it that every gas station in town can fix their prices together? Isn’t price fixing supposed to be illegal?
There is not sufficient regulation to support the hypothesis of competition.
8% profit margin? That’s… Absolutely abysmal. How the heck do they stay afloat?
Not sure if you are being sarcastic and think 8% is huge or you are being sincere and think 8% is poor. 8% is average compared to other industries.
And free market capitalism also supports competition - if there’s a company that can do it for less, there will be, because people will spend less if they can.
It works both ways mate
How long have you been alive? If you’ve been an adult for ten or more years and haven’t noticed the degradation in quality of services, I don’t know what to tell you.
Every streaming service.
That’s a super young market by airline standards, still settling in. Not comparable
Things would not get better, they’d just charge more to increase profit margins. Haven’t you ever lived under Capitalism before?
People already pay double, and more, for business and first class. They get a much better experience than economy fliers. The problem with flying economy is that it’s a race for the cheapest ticket, so they’ll keep cutting service and comfort as long as people still buy tickets.
If people stopped buying economy tickets because the experience isn’t acceptable, then it would improve.
Exactly.
The glory days of air travel were before deregulation and they were much more expensive. Now they are cheap and as pleasurable as going on a bus. Actually prices have been going up significantly recently but the shitty conditions remain.
Of Course, it’s company policy to never imply ownership in the event of a dildo, we have to use the indefinite article “a” dildo, never “your” dildo.
My dildo.
Our dildo.
“Thine dildo” for the Amish
On my way home from Spain as I type this, AirTags in luggage as always.
Haven’t had to rely on them at all due to loss luckily but I do like having them in our luggage.
Fortune favors the prepared. Better to have them in your luggage and never need them than to need them and not have them.
my iPhone was telling me that my AirTag was showing [the luggage] live in Toronto," said Sih. “It would update every few minutes when it would ping off someone’s phone.”
The way this works creeps me out
It’s not that as bad as it seems. The way it is set up is actually very privacy-minded with the use of cryptography. I would encourage you to read more about this.
The primary safety concern is stalking. For example when a stalker puts an AirTag on your belongings or vehicle. iPhones can detect unknown airtags moving with you. Android devices should gain this capability in the future.
We had some issues with sensitive equipment being left behind at people’s homes, so someone suggested putting airtags in the cases so we could easily find them. There was an email explaining this was being done.
Cue 2 weeks of employees getting “unknown tracker alerts” on their phones and asking WTF was going on.
My android already has this! It’s a setting called Unknown Tracker Alerts
Then they released that already. Nice.
Android devices should gain this capability in the future.
Gross, please no. I don’t care how much cryptography they use, I still hate the idea of being opted-in to my personal hardware being part of a corporate run botnet for tracking devices.
I meant the feature where it can detect if an unknown AirTag is travelling with you. Not the part where it will participate in the find my network. I don’t see that happening anytime soon.
deleted by creator
Then opt out?
You should not have to. This is not how device ownership should work. I don’t want to own any devices that were designed by people who think this is a reasonable thing to do.
Idk what phone you have today (though it sounds like android) , but by those standards I can almost guarentee that you already have a phone that does similarly privacy invading things
They’re giving Android phones the ability to detect Apple tags so you can notice you have one “following” you. You won’t be providing GPS updates to Apple as I understand it, nor will you be able to use Apple tags without an iPhone.
I believe they already can detect unknown airtags. But they aren’t usable in the Airtag network.
I don’t think it is “lying”, it sounds like their tracking system is broken. No one is talking to Air Canada and updating the system so when they check it it still says DC.
Representatives from both United Airlines and Air Canada promised to attend to the luggage and get it to him as soon as possible. “Unfortunately,” says Sih, “no one did.”
Well that is just poor service.
Seems weird to describe this as lying—does the author think that UA is deliberately depriving this person of his luggage? It seems obvious that their system for tracking luggage is flawed and showing incorrect information. I can’t imagine any scenario where this would be intentional.
I think they just don’t care. I think that they’re instructed to do as told, and nothing else. Security is pretty tough there (maybe not security, but the fines if someone finds out that you did something you mustn’t do by company policy) so I can understand why everyone was like ”but the computer says…!“
Yeah I think that’s what it is. Not a priority for the company which has built ineffective tracking systems and a bureaucracy that disincentivizes employees from actually solving problems in that system.
You’ve been living under a fucking rock then 😂
Why do you say that?
I agree with you. Based on the info, the Airline was communicating information they believed to be true based on their tracking. Sometimes mistakes happen, and based on the volume of luggage, and some air lines being understaffed… It happens unfortunately.
My wife will be flying quite a bit for the next few months and after reading this article I broke down and ordered some Tile Pro’s for her to use.
deleted by creator
You may want to reread what he said they’re buying…
Ghv
