Actually it’s from the 14th century

Ticks and mosquitoes aren’t vegan either, are they? That has nothing to do with liking them, it just suddenly occurred to me.

And realistically they’re more likely to end up here

… and they’re more likely to start their own websites about it.

Your instance seems to be serving you up a thumbnail of the image instead of the actual image. I recommend temporarily looking at the post from another instance, such as mine.

Hey, I didn’t make plantbased to be a less committed version to veganism. I made it because from reddit to lemmy every vegan community I’ve encountered has power tripping toxic mods and I wanted to provide an alternative space.

I’m fully committed to my veganism. But I also wanted people who aren’t to be able to discuss it without being attacked.

After I wrote this I see you’re writing from a vegan instance. I have less experience with there versus vegan communities around here.

I’m apparently banned from vegan theory club. I have no idea what I could have done to them.

Are you “all or nothing” with stopping rape? Or would you be okay with some light raping happening, if the majority was anti-rape?

They clearly view this act as something as abhorrent as we would rape, so why are you surprised they don’t want to meet half way on the topic?

It’s like they don’t realize that by being this hostile towards any other viewpoints, they drive away people who might otherwise be interested in becoming vegan or want to learn more. All it does is harm the community in the long run, and then they wonder why there’s a stigma around vegans. That stigma then feeds into a persecution complex and that becomes a nasty vicious cycle.

I will not debate about whether animals, plants and bacteria suffer the same way.
This is an argument I’ve heard time and time again from the antivegan crowd and imo falls into the “at best very uninformed, more likely troll” category.

Isn’t it pretty apparent?

If it can feel pain and suffer it shouldn’t.

Bacteria do not have the capability to feel suffering. They cannot even feel.

Plants and fungi, despite their increased complexity, do not have the capability to suffer either.

The entire point of the field of ethics and half the field of philosophy is to reduce suffering. Torture is bad because it causes suffering. Killing is bad because it causes suffering. Slavery is bad because it causes suffering. Rape is bad because it causes suffering. Abuse is bad because is causes suffering.

Veganism extends this to animals who are capable of suffering in ways identical to us humans. It also raises important questions: Would it be ethical to treat aliens the same way humanity treats non-humans? What if the aliens are sufficiently stupid, yet still capable of civilization? What if they’re smarter but live in solitude? Why exactly is it unethical to kill severely mentally disabled people? Is it just because humans view themselves as superior to every other living being in the universe?

I believe veganism is the objectively moral choice. Still, I’m not vegan for various reasons. But I don’t have any qualms with admitting my behavior is objectively wrong.

Hello dear internet user,
It looks like you need to educate yourself on at least 3 topics before using your keyboard again:

• why is it hurtful and not ok to rebutt other’s opinions by suggesting they are mentally ill?
• are other animals sentient, sociable and do they feel emotions and pain?
• how are meat and dairy products produced and how many animals live in this system?

Once you’ve done the work, we’ll be able to agree on the basics facts and exchange arguments on how we see the situation and the precise words we want to use.

Looking forward to engaging with you in good faith in the future,
Me.

No dispute here, i’m just saying this sorta remind me of the controversy beaver kick off 4 months ago in the vegan community, behaviour-wise it’s very similar.

I would trip over your description “a vegan restaurant that serves a bit of meat” as well, because it doesn’t make sense to call it “vegan” then.

I can understand why someone would want to prevent the term “vegan” from being watered down.

If a supposedly vegan restaurant suddenly offers non-vegan dishes, this carries more weight for vegans than if some other restaurant tinkers with its menu.

You may have already advertised the “vegan” restaurant in good faith and now they’re stabbing you in the back.

The change also shows that the owners themselves are not vegan. And then, of course, you question everything: were the ingredients ever properly screened? What about the wine? Were the chairs covered in leather? Were the candles made from beeswax?

Just imagine a “vegan” restaurant that has an advertising banner for the elephant circus hanging on the door. Outrage would be justified. But they even put fucking meat on the menu.

“Vegan” is a statement. People should not tag it on their business if they’re merely coicidentally plant-based and don’t actually care for animal rights.

It would certainly have been more conciliatory for everyone if the mods had made it clear in the thread why they were upset about the comments. On the other hand, I can also understand if they were not in the mood for the hundredth discussion and would rather take the “easier” route and delete the comment. But I also think it’s excessive to justify it with “fake vegan”. You’re vegan if you leave your hands off the animals. Semantic considerations are not necessary.

That being said, it’s wonderful that you’re both vegan and that the topic is obviously important to you. Don’t let a loose string on the jointly pulled rope divide you. We have more important battles to fight.

Vegan btw

When I go to a vegan community, I don’t want to debate with carnists. I would consider that trolling. There are other places meant for debating. Vegan communities are basically safe spaces to talk with other vegans and people that want to be vegan.

Too many carnists troll the vegan communities, they created this problem. I first joined lemmy during the reddit exodus on a .world account. The vegan community at that point was poorly moderated and most of the comments were carnists circle jerking about how eating meat is so great to them. Finally, active people took over and it became so much better to actually browse that community once these trolls were banned. This behavior is nothing new btw, I’ve seen assholes on reddit and facebook do the same to vegan spaces. You’ll notice I’m no longer on .world, I disagree with their modding practices and lately I feel even more justified in leaving that cesspool.

I want vegan news, vegan recipes, and vegan discussion. I do not want carnists coming in, at all. People can come in asking genuine questions about veganism, but no debating whatsoever. I do not mod any of these communities btw, but this is what I want as a user.

It seems hostile to you because you have not had to deal with the constant carnist trolls. People who complain vegans are militant or hostile is a red flag for me, it really means that vegans are too unapologetic about their veganism instead of being passive people who don’t rock the boat or question the status quo. These people are defensive about vegans pointing out that they are consuming products made from abuse, rape, and murder. They want to be treated with kiddie gloves. Sorry, but no vegan is obligated to do so.

And…? They’re not being used by humans. They do it out of their free will in the wild.

You’re gasping at straws.

It’s both!

It can be. I know a lot of the loudest vegans insist this is the only acceptable definition. But that’s not how language works. A vegan is someone who abstains from all animal food products, and usually all/most other animal products. Their reason for doing so is not an essential part of the definition.

Cheers

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