Summary
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) pushed back against Trump’s border czar, Tom Homan, after he suggested the DOJ investigate her for “aiding and abetting” illegal immigration.
Homan accused her of helping people evade ICE by educating constituents on their constitutional rights. AOC dismissed the threats, challenging Homan to proceed and calling him a “coward.”
Tensions are high over immigration enforcement and civil liberties, with AOC arguing that informing people of their rights is legally protected.
AOC is what the democratic party needs to become. The sooner the party figures that out, the sooner they can start clawing back public support.
We need so many more like her. Whip smart and brave.
Yeah, like what the fuck are they doing? Waiting for a ref to come in and say the other team isn’t playing fair? Time to sink to their level and fight back!
IMHO, she’s not sinking to their level. She’s actually being honest and authentic.
You assume they want it. They get their donor money and trading perks no matter who is in power.
👆 This right here. It may be oversimplified or “naive”, but I liken the Democrats as shills for the audiences of snake oil salesmen; they push back just enough to seem genuine, but they’re all in cahoots.
I find this rhetoric to be a blame game of nonfunctional government.
Let’s say it easy. Did they want the ACA to be more, yes. Did it become more no.
So let me ask you a simple question, do you want the ACA completely dissolved or still fighting for existence? Because that is the only real legacy of a Democratic ownership of the legislative body that has existed since Y2K.
So do you support universal health care, or do you not? Because we are going to fight tooth and nail, claw by claw to fucking get it, and everyone who thinks otherwise is thinking that the companies lobbying against it will just suddenly “disappear” if you had the right candidate. Bull shit
I’m at the point in my life, and understanding, that there is no right candidate. I don’t want the ACA at all. It’s been mutilated and mutated by the republicans (and indirectly by the democrats who rolled over and let it happen) so badly it’s not really that good. Sure, it’s probably better than nothing, or maybe it’s not. I don’t have that knowledge or experience to say.
What I do want is universal healthcare (done right) and universal basic income (done right). I am sick and goddamn tired of the elites shitting on everyone below their economic status. No one — absolutely no one — needs to have that much money, power, or influence on everyone else’s lives.
And at this point, there is absolutely no reason anybody shouldn’t be able to figure out truth versus bullshit. Anybody who believes vaccines cause harm, or trans anybody is out to rape the kids, or even as stupid as saying the earth is flat, needs to be rounded up and have something done with them; what, I don’t know. I’ll leave that to smarter people than me to figure out.
And one more thing — let’s get this straight: free speech for the sake of being able to “express yourself” any which way you see fit is bullshit. It’s that mentality that got us here in the first place. No. If you say something - either with malice or ignorance - you need to be held responsible for any and all consequences (I’m looking at you Jenny McCarthy, Jim Carey, Rush Limbaugh (rot in hell), goddamn Republican/MAGA/Traitors). If I yell fire in a crowded theater, you’re damn right I should be punished for all damage and harm that comes from that.
So how do you get your universal healthcare if not claw by claw in a democracy overriden by bureaucratic bribery? By pissing on those who support bits of it? Or by ignoring them and choosing nothing?
If you want to fight for it, you do it by supporting those who support more, and tearing down those who down support any of it. Kill them if you have too, I don’t care. The point remains the same. If you compare it to a sports game, every inch matters. American football is like American politics. It’ll take 1,000,000 working class men to offset 1 oligarch at the minimal. We need about 70,000,000 working class people right now to get us pointed in the right direction. That’s just the start.
By the way, love your thoughts about justice
I’m sure they’re happy to hear they’re shills to new-hitler as per some internet rando.
Homan accused her of helping people evade ICE by educating constituents on their constitutional rights.
Homan is saying teaching the US Constitution to people is a crime?! What the actual fuck!?
WHO TOLD YOU YOU HAVE RIGHTS!!!
educating constituents on their constitutional rights
Wow, how dare she!
Are illegals constituents? Do non-citizens have constitutional rights?
Yes and yes. This is a long-settled matter, legally speaking.
I’m having a hard time l finding anything that legally states illegal immigrants are considered constituents. What I am finding says that a constituent is a person who votes. Do you know where I can find any material supporting your claim?
Edit: so much for polite. You people need to back off. I’m simply trying to learn something. Jesus, not everyone knows what y’all know.
You righties are fuckin dicks. Illegal immigrants are human beings and have rights.
I’m not a righty. I’m legit trying to find more info and my Google fu sucks. WTH people?
many, many vital constitutional rights extend to anyone in the us, regardless of their status.
everyone is really, really on edge. dont take things too personally.
I appreciate your response.
FWIW, I know that anyone in the US, regardless of citizenship status, has legal rights under the constitution. This is why the constitution uses the language of “people” and “person” and not “citizen”. It’s the use of the word constituent that I was lacking legal/political clarity on.
A constituent can mean either a part of the whole or someone who lives and votes in a district.
Voting isn’t even a requirement. One definition is simply an individual who resides within an area represented by an elected individual.
The person above you that originally asked the question used “illegals” as a noun. Some of the heat focused on you lis probably coming from people who aren’t paying attention to the usernames.
Constituents are the residents of an electoral district or the people represented by an elected official. Undocumented immigrants who live in AOC’s district are her constituents as much as anyone else.
As far as evidence goes, I think all you need is the second section of the 14th Amendment. Undocumented immigrants are counted in the census. I’ve read that if all of the undocumented immigrants suddenly vanished from California they would lose 2 to 4 seats (this could be wrong but it sounds believable so I didn’t dig deeper, feel free to fact check it) so there are literally members of Congress who only have seat because their constituency includes a relatively large population of undocumented immigrants.
“aliens who have once passed through our gates, even illegally, may be expelled only after proceedings conforming to traditional standards of fairness encompassed in due process of law.”
From a Supreme Court decision in 1952, even undocumented immigrants are subject to the due process clauzes of the Constitution: https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep345/usrep345206/usrep345206.pdf
Per Evenwel v. Abbott (2016), even those who cannot vote have a say in policy “Nonvoters have an important stake in many policy debates and in receiving constituent services. By ensuring that each representative is subject to requests and suggestions from the same number of constituents, total-population apportionment promotes equitable and effective representation.”
Undocumented immigrants are also counted im the census, and thus are represented in Congress and the Electoral College. And since they are represented in congress, they are constituents of their congresspeople just the same as citizens or documented immigrants.
“aliens who have once passed through our gates, even illegally, may be expelled only after proceedings conforming to traditional standards of fairness encompassed in due process of law.”
From a Supreme Court decision in 1952: https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/ll/usrep/usrep345/usrep345206/usrep345206.pdf
It had long precedent and has been upheld since: https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artI-S8-C18-8-7-2/ALDE_00001262/
Now, the question about whether or not they’re constituents could probably be debated, since they can’t vote. But if a person who didn’t vote for an official is still a constituent, then a person who couldn’t vote for an official is as well.
Are illegals constituents?
illegals
really, dude? really?
They’re not even human to them
Yes because they’re human, just not American. Inalienable rights are inherent to all people.
Are Navajo constituents? How about Puerto Ricans?
Because they might want to know their rights.
The people related to immigrants are often voting constituents interested in their and their families rights if that’s what you mean. Immigrant do have constitutional rights. For example, you can’t just deny them freedom of speech or enslave them just because they’re non citizens. That would be wild.
I think laws apply to everyone inside a country, not just citizens. Not sure about the US though, I’m not american and who knows what the fuck is going on in that clown country 🤷
I’ve wanted to develop a conversation on this subject for a long time, because it’s a fallacy “both sides” have fallen for: The fact that illegal actions are often right, and legal actions are often immoral.
People will often harp on the fact that an act was “technically not legal”; yet throughout history, we have needed illegal acts to frame what’s right in the world. When we discuss these things online, it’s more honest to talk about “What the harm is” - a subject that often leans in favor of left-leaning opinions both for what’s illegal (living in the USA illegally, generally causing negative harm) and improperly using presidential powers to shut down government agencies (not just illegal, but also extremely harmful).
If you disagree and specifically want to harp on legality, then I invite you to see what happens if you start shooting jaywalkers in the street for their flagrant violation of the law. Prosecutorial discretion exists for a very important reason.
The only thing about this is I don’t trust them. I would totally expect them to plant shit or just lock her up like Navalny. In a normal would, the investigation would fizzle like a Gym Jordan investigation. If they take AOC, we’re gonna suit up, boys.
I’m not letting my kid grow up to be a Nazi. Not without a fight.
The education system here might be crap, but it did do an effective job at showing me the significant damage a few can do, but also showed me the overwhelming power of the many.
Does he understand how weak this makes him look? This little girl is making your job difficult? But you’re a big strong man with a mandate, and youve said it almost a dozen times now, you know exactly where these criminals are. Which is it? Wittle bitty AOC is a big meanie head that’s making it hawd to find deeze big bad criminal maniacs. Or you know exactly where they are and we have nothing to worry about. If you know where they are and you have ample evidence of their crimes getting a warrant shouldn’t be any problem at all and there’s nothing AOC can do or say to stop you.
WHICH IS IT!?
Oh that’s right it’s the one where YOU want to violate rights and YOU want to break laws and having people be informed of their rights means you can’t be a tyrant.
Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as “at the same time too strong and too weak”. On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will.
One of Umberto Eco’s 14 properties of fascism
Ah god damnit you’re right. Here I thought people were consistent and rational.
If Trump was dead serious on immigration, he would’ve challenged and sent Musk packing. But Trump’s idea of tackling the immigration issue is in the same vein as tackling anyone else he don’t like. So he would delightfully target AOC and get rid of her at any chance.
Go ahead Tom Homan, show Republicans how much the Trump admin and DoJ is being made to care about free speech and 1st amendment rights.
I wouldn’t be daring known liars to do anything… you have to be wise when dealing with people like that.
idk, man. at some point bodies have to go on the line. people need to stand in the way.
I am thankful that some in the Democratic party seem to be willing to lead on this. makes it a little easier for the rest of us to get the fuck up off the couch.
edit: creeped your posts. usa here. double thumbs up on your american blackout day on the 28th. stand up to the bully - I am proud for canada.
Thanks for your support, it means a lot!
I’m by no means saying do nothing, just do it very wisely. These liars are in positions right now where they can make up anything about almost anyone to get them outta the way.
You need to push back hard. If they come at you to arrest you (as a sitting representative), maybe it’ll wake people up. You just have to hope they aren’t going to barge in at 6 am with machine guns, because historically that doesn’t end well for anyone.
I was thinking more along the lines of framing people.
If this guy isn’t wasted, he’s certainly not capable of being a communications person for his own cause.
I’m the Doctor. You’re in a library. Look me up!
Removed by mod
Explain
Just watch what she talks about and HOW she argues with stupid illogical nonsense about almost everything in house hearings/congress etc.
She exists in another reality. In her own.
Give a clear example bud.
I get that playing the contrarian is fun and makes you feel cool and smart, but if you can’t actually back up what you say, it makes you look like a dumbass.
So, you have nothing, coward.
Oh noes! Woman who talk good and know words? And not in kitchen!!
So scawy.
Yeah ok there buddy 🙄
Explain if you even understood the comment
Just ignore the account that called her delulu, they’re being a Musk apologist elsewhere.
I still don’t know what dellulu is what’s happening
Delusional
Delulu means they think she is crazy. Like deluded.
Do what I did: Google “what is delulu”
Nice accusation. Ignore this accounts comment.
He is being a Stalin/Hitler/Putin apologist elsewhere.
Interesting that you can’t back up your own words from earlier but have the time, energy and effort for being accusatory to anyone who calls you out.
No wonder you’ve deleted most of your comment history despite being here two years.
Backup? Its an opinion I’ve about that individual. There is nothing to backup. You don’t like it? Your problem, move on. I don’t need to backup my opinions to anyone.
Where is the backup of all your claims in here? Accusing me of shit without any evidence. Fuxking hypocrite double standard shit.
You just posting emotional opinions too, not facts. So gtfo and stop starting an rage bait battle. Is this reddit here or what?
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/318338
Pretty sure this is you defending Musk. But you do you, man. Pretend that people can’t see that shit.
So you’re simply admitting to shitposting and trolling?
Out of curiosity, what is your native language? Your English is very good.
You’re a coward.
Ooh, politicians should never make challeges like that…
https://www.history.com/news/gary-hart-scandal-front-runner
“Follow me around,” The New York Times Magazine reported him saying just a few weeks after he declared his candidacy. “I don’t care. I’m serious. If anybody wants to put a tail on me, go ahead. They’d be very bored.”
I mean, doesn’t sound like the challange was the issue, it was actually being guilty of what he was accused of. I mean it could be horrible if AOC is doing something terrible in secret, but at least to my knowledge it’s what she’s accused of is what she’s doing publicly (teaching people their rights).
Gary Hart had a scandal to expose.
If AOC had anything to hide it would have been plastered all over Fox News already. The best they could do was try to knock her for a recording of her dancing in college or something equally irrelevant.
So AOC is supposed to be silent and let ORAGNE paint the town red?
No, but you don’t challenge them to investigate you, because they absolutely will.
AOC has been a thorn in their side for years. You really think it’s possible for them to investigate her even harder than they’ve surely already done?
I think challenging them to do so definitely opens that door.
Idk why this is dv’d. It’s the same thing as "don’t talk to the cops even if you’re innocent " I have had more than one attorney term me multiple times the only thing anyone ever needs to say is: lawyer, lawyer, lawyer and lawyer.
That is good advice for someone who doesn’t know that they may have done something that could be exposed, but AOC has already been through the wringer from right wingers and doesn’t have anything new for them to find.
Best 45 minutes you can spend today.
If you don’t have that kind of time. 1:01:
