So was talking with a Sunni friend, and he was telling me that Iranians are not muslim. He was also saying this is a common belief in the middle east.
I couldn’t tell if this was some old prejudice thing, or I am just ignorant on the matter because from my understanding they are Shia muslims and have a religious head of state (even though maybe they are not following Islam in the same manner as other muslims would approve of).
When I asked him to clarify if he meant that Shia muslims are not true muslims or if he meant Iranians are not muslims it also got kind of confusing. He was talking about the history of the split over who would be the successor to Ali, and then something I’ve never heard before. He said a Jewish person created a new Shia’ism with “12 infallible imams”, which honestly sounds like some antisemetic conspiracy but Im just not knowledgeable on the matter. From what I searched I dont see any origin from a Jewish person in Shia’ism.
Anyways, curious to know more about how Iran is viewed by the rest of the middle east and how they view themselves. Also hope I didn’t say anything offensive.
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Some sunni see shia islam as a diferent religion instead of a diferent branch of islam, they mostly say it as a way to deny them legitimacy as muslims like how some christian sect see themselfs as the real followers of christ and all others as paganisms
He’s just the Muslim equivalent of some Evangelical insisting Catholics aren’t Christians.
This is absolutely Sunni Shia sectarianism + a hatred of Persians. It gets dumber the more you research it.
twelvers are a Jewish conspiracy now, incredible stuff. I know a lot of non Muslim shah types are on the “Iranians are zoroastrians, Islam colonized us” type shit but never heard the twelvers are Jews one before.
look up abdallah ibn saba’, that’s where this weird thing comes from.
retvrn to the gloriovs aryan empire. Javid Shah /s
He’s specifically citing the twelvers as the reason he doesn’t consider shia’s to be Muslim
Oh I know, just hilarious
it’s the type of insular bullshit that like a mufti from bum’fuq egypt believes in but because of social media it gets spread between people and it just becomes fact at some point. it’s the equivalent to all the deep state and Qanon nonsense evangelical christians in US believe in and how the pope is doing satanic child blood orgies in the basement of the vatican.
im biased because im Shia but generally Sunnis hate Shias more than Shias hate Sunnis. there has also been schools of revivalist thought since the decline of the gunpowder empires and rise of colonialism and imperialism in the 18th-19th century which in iran resulted in the clergy becoming revolutionary and in places like saudi arabia has resulted in new schools like wahhabism which insists on returning to the “True Islam” for islamic nations to return to their past glory.
That was what I thought, though this person was from the middle east and kept telling me that it’s true and I just don’t know about it cause I’m not from there. I knew some Iranians and tbh never really talked about religion with them. Didn’t know if I was stumbling upon some sectarianism I wasn’t aware of or if it’s the actual sentiment in the ME.
He’s said some other sus stuff which is kind of disappointing me now because otherwise he’s a cool dude
ok now i gotta know what other stuff he said.
Shia’s historically have oppressed Sunni’s whenever they are in power.
Said the Assads were secterian. Hama massacre happened because the people there disagreed with one policy of Assad (don’t know too much about this). Bashar is bad because he killed people who didn’t declare him as their god. Blamed Yarmouk on Shia’s
The Alawites being killed by the Syrian government right now are Assadists and criminals and started the conflict by killing civilians and refusing to hand in their weapons. Though he admits there were innocent civilians killed by the government’s retaliation. Says western media/Israel is blowing it out of proportion.
Edit: now he’s saying Khomeini was a western puppet
now he’s saying Khomeini was a western puppet
some chuds here say that too that like it’s all planned in secret and in fact the revolution was a plot to overthrow the shah to prevent iran becoming a superpower. it’s all nonsense stuff.
Iranians aren’t Arabs, but they can definitely be Muslim. This is because Persians traditionally speak Farsi, not Arabic. Really sounds like the person you were talking to was being an asshole lol.
That was my gut instinct. Wanted to give this guy the benefit of the doubt and also I’m not Muslim nor from the middle east so I didn’t feel like I could tell him he was wrong. From all the responses in this post it does sound like he was on some kind of racism that I didn’t know existed
Shia good
Sunni gulf Arabs bad
That’s what we think in Palestine (my dad thinks this the most tbh)
you guys deserve better allies honestly we haven’t done shit for you.
Thanks habibi
Glory to ansar Allah
He’s telling me now that historically Shia’s always oppress Sunnis when in power. I asked about Iraq under Saddam, but he sort of downplayed it.
I told him that seems contradictory to me that Shia’s want to oppress Sunni’s, when Hezbollah, Iran and Ansarallah are the only ones actually doing something for Palestine in the middle east. Then he told me what I said is controversial
What’s the general vibe on Sunni Syrians? Obviously Assad bad, but is there any discussion on what has come after
I support Hezbollah bro
Hamas ,Hezbollah and Ansar Allah
Only one of these groups is Sunni and it’s from our country
Obviously comrade, I was wondering if that was widespread and common among Palestinians you know
The three groups I mentioned are very supported in Palestine by almost everyone
But there is some anti Shia sectarianism from some people
The most pro Iran people are usually the sheikhs
The anti Iran crowd is chauvinist and not that religious
Understood, thank you
Yeah that just sounds like bog standard anti Shia prejudice
As your friend explained the birth of the Shia (which means “the group”) is when there was a disagreement regarding chosing who would be the head of the state; so at the start it had nothing to do with religion. Both candidates, Abu Bakr a companion of the prophet and Ali his cousin, were equally fit but the majority was for Abu Bakr. Then later, much later, some of the people ascribing to the Shia started considering themselves apart from the 80+% majority and they are not all the same. What makes them then not Muslims?
First, “Muslim” is someone who submits to God, and God tells the faithful in the Quran to call themselves “Muslims”, not Shia nor Sunni or anything else.
So to fall outside of the fold of Islam one has to hold beliefs which oppose what God ordained. In this regards many Shia and Sunni might associate something with God, which is the biggest sin. Some Shia sects (yes not all Shia hold the same beliefs) give characteristics to Ali or the 12 imams which only God has, like being all-hearing, omniscient, having the power to change destiny etc.
It is not and should not be about race or being Arab (80% of Muslims are not Arab). In his famous last sermon the prophet, peace be upon him, said:
“O people, verily your Lord is One and your father is one. Verily there is no superiority of an Arab over a non-Arab or of a non-Arab over an Arab, or of a red man over a black man, or of a black man over a red man, except in terms of taqwa (mindfulness of God). Have I conveyed the message?” They said: The Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) has conveyed the message.
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