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Why do we let humans go outside ???
We’re too big for coyotes, know to stay away from bears, and can tell other people if we need rabies shots
You’re only too big for a coyote, packs will hunt lone humans
If you can’t or won’t let your cat outside then don’t get a cat. A zoo keeping a cat, big or small, inside with no access to outdoors would rightly be charged with animal cruelty.
Get a catio.
Don’t let cats kill more birds and amphibians. Cats being let outside has contributed to the extinction of countless species.
I used to see Cardinals everywhere in my back yard wonder if my neighbors shit head orange keeps killing them
Also, lead walking! Most cats can be trained to be very receptive to lead walking especially if you start them young. Your cat still gets the enrichment from walking around outside and all the lovely smells and sights that entails but without the danger of cars or the cat killing everything is feels like.
Walking your cat is a great way to get them outside, but (depending on the individual) it’s quite different from walking a dog. Most cats aren’t very interested in the actual walking part of walks, and may be much happier finding a nice bush to sit under for half an hour. However a leash is a great way to keep your cat supervised and under control for outside visits, either in the back yard, around the block, or to a nearby park.
Other warnings: starting them young is ideal, but older cats can get used to the leash with a lot of patience (on both of your parts). Cats that were previously outdoor cats will have the most trouble adjusting to their loss of freedom, but indoor-only cats may be excited for the opportunity (or terrified: pushing your cat a little out of their comfort zone is okay but don’t overdo it!). A well-fitting harness/vest is crucial, and even then a very determined (or scared) cat can probably wriggle out so be prepared. Keep a very close eye on your cat’s emotional state and be ready to go home at signs of anxiety. Low-stress outdoor places (with few cars, dogs, screaming kids, etc, and with some form of cover like trees and bushes) are best especially to start. Treats and verbal encouragement, paired with small steps and lots of patience, are key! Above all stay consistent: once you’ve made the decision to make your cat leash-only, don’t let them go outside without it: your cat needs to make the connection that they have to be on a leash if they want to enjoy the outside.
My neighborhood has had at least two flier campaigns in the past year for cats who slipped their leads and disappeared. Best of luck for those who find it novel but I’m gonna keep it simple and just keep the cat inside.
I know they do a lot of killing and they fuck up the local ecosystem, but I never knew they actually made extinctions happen. What species?
https://gizmodo.com/8-species-driven-toward-extinction-by-cats-1848059691
Over half of pet cats in the U.S. spend time outside, and worldwide the animals have contributed to the extinction of at least 33 species, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.
Sadly, it’s already too late for dozens of species, including the Stephens Island wren (a flightless songbird), the crescent nailtail wallaby, and the adorable desert bandicoot.
[Suprise the Trump admin seems to have taken that page down — sure there is an archive tho]
That is absolutely crazy. Thanks for sharing!
Bigger issue imo is cats destroying wild life not the wild life destroying cats. Either way, keep your cat inside.
So, now you’re starving coyotes?
Some of us live in countries that don’t really have dangerous wild life and cats have been allowed outside for over 1000 years.
Humans can sustain a large density of cats that wasn’t possible in the wild. If it’s a pet cat, don’t let it hunt. It will imbalance the ecosystem by adding too many predators who don’t depend on the prey for sustenance
I always love bringing out this good ol chart.
Fake news. Birds aren’t real.
so… cats are the most effective way to combat birds?
yes :)
I might bookmark this one :)
Not a lick of urban sprawl in your fancy graphic. I wonder why?
Buildings, automobiles, power lines…
English isn’t your first language.
Thinking isn’t your strong suit.
Which is not the same as the effects of urban sprawl destroying their habitat (however this is obviously impossible to quantify)
Are you under the impression that being against urban sprawl is an unpopular opinion on Lemmy?
Im under the impression that saying that cats are the end of birds is asinine when all we do as humans is destroy habitat for all fauna.
Overly dramatic people who think their meat comes from a store are the same people who make this argument about cats.
Get over it, cats are not the genocidal maniacs you make them out to be, WE ARE.
Maybe letting cats out is one of the many ways we destroy habitat, and calling it out is valid?
How would you quantify that?
But I am not talking about the US
deleted by creator
cats have been allowed outside for over 1000 years
That’s simply not true. There were never as many outdoor cats as there is today and cats used to have natural predators everywhere to keep environmental balance which is lost today. Keeping all of your pets indoors (or at least backyard) is the only ethically viable position.
Downvoted by people who don’t like facts. There isn’t a country in the world with a domestic cat population that wouldn’t see a huge benefit to their native wildlife by keeping those pets inside or in a pet run. But people don’t like the change or the effort of doing so, so they ignore this inconvenient fact.
We really are a bunch of dumb apes, and we are doomed as a species. Its just a matter of time.
Indeed, pet owners simply don’t want to hear the truth which is incredibly irresponsible.
Even if you really must let your cat out there are things you can do like colorful collars with an attached bell which:
The BBScc reduced the number of birds brought home by 37% (probability of reduction of 88%). The number of mammals brought home was reduced by 54–62%, but only with the additional bell (probability of reduction of >99%)
https://zenodo.org/records/15210938
I’ve never seen a cat owner who cares enough to even do that when we have clear evidence this works. The naturalist argument of “oh they are local animals” is such an irresponsible cop out where they can’t even bother to put a collar on to diminish the damage. It’s inexcusable laziness, nothing else.
Strap a collar so that your cat ends up crazy or hanged surely there wont be any animal cruelty after that right guys right ??
Do you live in a building? Like something that was built by humans?
Then you have killed more animals than any cat will ever kill. Your continued use of any kind of lodging is killing animals.
Please stop living inside a man made structure and help destroy said structure so birds can live and take back their habitats.
After you do that, I will stop letting my 15 year old cat outside.
Have a great life!
Lmao what a stupid fallacy thats not even worth responding to. Bye
It’s OK, I thought what you wrote was not worthy of my time either, but then I decided to educate actual intelligent people, so I responded.
Im sure there are no birds in turkey, according to your logic.
Yeah I always found the argument absurd as I live on a paved over rectangle with a few square feet of grass my cat likes to poop on while he hangs out with the local squirrels. He is far too lazy to hunt anything, he killed a mouse that was actually inside the house many many years ago but has been a pacifist since. He is 15 he literally wants to sit in the sun and do nothing.
Of course there are some cats who will hunt, and their owners should not allow that. But the blanket statements about environmental impacts, while they cool their house with AC, burn fossil fuels to heat food and go to work, order crap on Amazon…just lacks perspective.
As a cat owner who works in the animal industry, you’re suffering from ‘my personal experience is reality-itis’.
You can’t ‘not allow’ your cat to hunt. The only chance you have is to keep it inside. Your old cat likely doesn’t hunt outside but to think it killed a single mouse it’s entire life, is delusional.
I don’t understand people like you. Can you not accept that there are shades of gray, and exceptions to every rule? I’m simply arguing that not all cats MUST be kept indoors no ifs ands or buts. I concede that many cats, young ones in particular, will kill small animals. My (rescue) cat was an indoor cat for most of his 15 years and only when I moved from a major urban city apartment building to a slightly less-urban city single family house did I let him outside under controlled circumstances. I straight up know he isn’t going around killing things. I didn’t go out and BUY this cat, I’m not actively contributing to breeding or anything. I have an animal that deserves to enjoy his old age.
I should probably not engage with you people and just keep my truth to myself.
keep my truth to myself.
Deluded.
Your particular circumstances are why YOUR particular 15 year old cat is great hanging in his own yard. It is not an argument in general even that SOME cats ought to be outdoor because they are overwhelmingly get killed and kill out there.
Your argument is so inapplicable to almost anyone else that its like saying your former ax murderer friend is totally safe because he’s taken up Buddhism and non-violence and is now mostly crippled.
Cats don’t always show you what they kill. I had a roommate that kept letting my cats out. Never saw them kill anything. Then my neighbor told me about how they were little murder machines while I was out at work. Tried taking out a whole near of baby birds.
I have cameras, and I work from home. He literally does not leave a fenced-in rectangle. I know for a fact he doesn’t kill anything.
It very well could be true. But I also don’t really think you’ve been able to watch your cat every moment of his outdoor life to know he literally never goes anywhere and has never killed anything. My cats are indoor only in a tiny apartment and I frequently can’t figure out where they are, even when I worked from home.
Bullshit and hearsay.
Those houses you both live in, how many animals were displaced to build them? How many died so your house can exist? You blame cats for the misery we as humans do to species of this planet. Sad
This is bullshit logic. We as adult humans already exist and have little choice about national housing policy. We can however choose not to contribute to suburban sprawl OR murder cats roaming the neighborhood whacking the wildlife. We can also choose not to have 12 children who will need space too. Not being able to do everything is a poor reason not to do anything.
Those cats already exist, you dipshit. Adopt, don’t buy. Spay/neuter. Let them have an enjoyable life and move the fuck on.
I don’t remember blaming cats all man made environmental catastrophes, but whatever.
It’s a form of nonsense argument where instead of addressing the actual point someone points at something worse and implies that if we can’t stop insert worse thing we somehow needn’t worry about insert less worse thing. In actuality presumably they have an outdoor cat and are contributing to the problem and just want to justify it.
Urban sprawl as well.
These cat hater can’t even get their heads out of their asses long enough to realize that humans are the biggest issue for wild animals bar none.
We destroy their habitat faster than any cat can hunt, but the cats are literally Hitler in their eyes.
They are delusional in my eyes.
A lot of those so called cat haters actually love cats. Did you know that outdoor cats have much shorter lifespans?
And you’re a fucking idiot. The cat is a tool of humans killing animals.
You are delusional in the majority of the population’s eyes.
Humans are dangerous wildlife not least because of our cars. That is why indoor cats live 10-20 years and outdoor cats 2-4
It’s hardly just cars. They have similar lifespans in areas that aren’t so car-centric.
They get parasites. They get into fights with animals in their weight class (like racoons). They get trapped by animals outside their weight class (like wolves). Tons of issues in the wild.
My uncle has a farm with a bunch of feral cats around. I learned at a young age to never get too attached to outdoor farm cats.
This is Michu, he used to live next door to me. He would be outside all the time, even in the freezing cold. Sometimes I’d hear him meowing at the neighbor’s back door to come back in, but nobody would answer. I’d hear the little guy calling out, and nobody would even be home. Sometimes I’d find him curled up on my deck chairs, so I started leaving blankets on them for cold nights. Eventually he started approaching me when I sat outside. We’d chill on the step and watch nature together.
But then a few months ago, he stopped coming. He stopped appearing entirely. When I talked to the neighbors, I learned that he’d contracted a UTI and had died. (Apparently it only takes a few hours for a swollen urethra to kill a male cat.)
Now, I don’t know how much his outdoors lifestyle contributed to his acquisition of a UTI (since they can occur in indoor cats as well, and search engine enshittification is making my search for hard data impossible.) However, I imagine that if Michu had been inside, his people might have noticed he wasn’t healthy.
Honestly, I’m not a vet and I’ve never had a cat, so I don’t feel qualified to tell people how to take care of theirs. This thread just reminded me of how I miss this little guy. He was around 4 years old and still had a lot of love to give. I was just lucky enough to receive some of it.
RIP, Michu ❤️
Where you live perhaps, I don’t know anyone that has had an issue here. As I said, some of us live in different countries.
But sure if you live next to a typical American 16 lane backroad you might not want to let them out.
Let’s keep building houses and not talk about how that destroys countless species’ habitats.
No, let’s shit on cats for the misery WE cause.
Saying an animal can’t go outside because they are the Hitler of animals is so disingenuous and out of touch with reality.
Cats are animals and are in their element outside. Birds are not being massacred by cats. They are being massacred by humans, and you are a fool for thinking any different.
Maybe stop hating cats and start hating humans if you want to protect birds’ habitat from being destroyed.
Hypocrites, the lot of you.
This lot is impossible to reason with, but I applaud your effort.
We cause it both by building over all the habitat AND by letting cats loose. Since I have to live somewhere I won’t feel bad about existing but I’ also won’t be letting my cat out to make it worse. That said that is 99.9% because outdoor cats normally live 2-4 years and indoor cats live 10-20 years. May cat gets to go outside in a strolller/harness and otherwise gets to roam our floor of the apartment.
Birds are not being massacred by cats. They are being massacred by humans, and you are a fool for thinking any different.
Google is right there, dipshit
Insult me more, and i will change my mind, Daddy.
Tell this to fucking New Zealand.
Tell it to Turkey!
I can’t take anyone seriously on cat welfare if they have a cat mutilated just to prevent furniture getting some scratch marks.
My cat loves her 6 C-size breast implants thank you very much. The reduced scratching is just a tangential benefit to her self image.
Have you found a surgeon willing to do all eight breasts? I’m finding most top out at six, even on eight-nippled cats like mine. One surgeon said he’d only do two! I was like, this is a cat, sir, not a tabaxi.
It is better for the bird population, too.
I witnessed basically this exact conversation once. We were in the exam room, and our vet stepped out to the computer in the hallway to show a woman her cat’s X-rays. Apparently it had been attacked by a dog and wouldn’t make it.
The vet literally said, “So what did we learn today? Don’t let your cat outside if you want it to live.”
Funny.
In Europe we’ve the same discussion for the opposite reasons.
Do not let the cat outside, it will kills other animals.
It’s really both. Eventually cat will get into an accident, but on the way there it will take a whole bunch of smaller animals and birds with it.
Never had a cat that got into an accident, though one of my current cats is an idiot when it comes to walking across the drive
This reads a bit like “that hasn’t happened to me so that doesn’t happen”.
“I don’t wear my seatbelt, but nothings happened so it’s probably fine”
This works for people with empathy who care. The former works for people who are selfish. Both are good to tell people. One may work where the other doesn’t.
birds are annoying and eat herbs in my garden, my cat eats slightly less of the garden and provides me with entertainment and bird removal.
You can use netting to keep them off or your garden or just grow enough to have enough after they need or both
The birds do a lot more for you than just eating herbs in your garden. You just aren’t aware of it, until they’re gone at least. Stop thinking you’re more important than the ecosystem.
there are so many birds and so much environment I don’t think a cat occasionally escaping from my house will do much harm.
Well guess what, most ecological destruction is caused by people with that exact mindset.
Domestic cats are responsible for the extinction of several species.
They think that cats kill every single bird and don’t think about what massive harm humans have done.
They are delusional and don’t understand nature and reality.
These people probably think meat comes from the grocery store.
I can’t fathom how out of touch you have to be to blame cats for everything humans have done. Sure, cats hunt, but to say they are destroyers of entire species is beyond delusion and into severe mental health territory.
Showing a graphic about how buildings kill fewer birds than cats is asinine and disingenuous, to say the least.
Maybe compare cats to urban sprawl to see what that says about who kills and displaced wild animals. Hypocrites the lot of them.
Let me get this clear. You think humans are responsible for the damage they cause to the environment and we should be aware and take responsibility for it, correct?
I don’t think anyone disagrees with that evaluation. However, our impact is not only limited to what we build. It also includes our actions. We have hunted species into extinction, which is bad, right?
If that’s bad, things we choose to bring with us we’re also responsible for, and hunting things out of extinction that don’t just go extinct from normal environmental changes is bad, then bringing cats with us that hunt things to extinction is bad, correct?
This isn’t saying they’re the only bad things were responsible for. That would be a ridiculous thing to believe. It’s just saying we are responsible for them, and they do cause damage to the ecosystem, including full on extinction events on occasion. (See: the other comment here that includes a list of species that no longer exist because of cats.) You agree, right?
My brother in Christ, cats have made species go extinct because humans bring them everywhere. It’s our responsibility.
What are you smoking?
So I live in an apartment which by virtue of going up uses far less space, I keep my cats indoors and take them on walks outside, and I didn’t create a bunch of kids and instead chose to raise one that already existed. You can always do more.
But that’s the point. I don’t want mice around the house.
Wow, that’s ruff
Holy crap…yes. leash your cats for the love of all that is fuzzy.
The anger people have when you tell them it’s neglect when you just let a cat roam free. It’s insanity. Your cat can easily just never come home or be found dead to many things, and they also destroy lots of wildlife and crap on people’s property with no respecting owner to clean up.
No one would take this from dogs…so why cats? It’s literally for their safety and the safety of other animals…its mind boggling and the downvotrs prove it
Here is a perspective from someone who has owned an inside/outside cat for the last 12 years. My cat is independent and resourceful and yes, contributes to ecodestruction by killing birds and mice occasionally. To me this is negligible compared to the ecodestruction of simply existing in a city. If I lived in nature I would not have a cat. I don’t think you can conflate my cat killing a pigeon twice a year in an urban environment with destroying the ecosystem.
It’s also disengenuous to ignore the quality of life improvements of having a cat who is free to explore vs. one locked in an apartment all day. I recently moved and am now experiencing this and it sucks. I feel terrible for restricting her freedom and she is visibly less happy. If you think animals are sentient and have emotions, and you care about the environment, then none of what we are currently doing makes any sense.
I do <insert bad thing> already so I don’t need to avoid doing <insert other bad thing> because I already do <bad thing> even though the nature of my effect on the world is the sum of my behavior and I’m really bad at logic.
Yup, and I’m the only one with agency in the whole world. It’s all about me.
You are a human who thinks and cares about others and living creatures in nature, not a virtue signaler wanting points on the internet by shitting on cats. Thank you.
Yes, I will bring my half feral barn cat inside.
You know the reason it’s a feral cat, is because people let the cats roam free. It’s the result of people neglecting their pets and letting them roam to begin with.
This a compounding issue and people are justifying loose feral cats, because they found a loose feral cat so it must remain feral.
Barn cats with a job on a farm in the country are obviously a different story, my issue is more directed at the cats roaming in urban neighbourhoods, with no purpose/job.
Picture your neighbourhood with feral dogs…you’d be annoyed/upset/scared when you come across one taking a massive dump on your lawn and it gets defensive about its territory. Cats are realistically no different but somehow socially accepted. It makes no sense.
The anger people have when you tell them it’s neglect when you just let a cat roam free. It’s insanity.
If you want to see people loose their mind, suggest that the way we dominate these animals to please us is the root cause of all that suffering and neglect.
*I live with a cat and am having beef for dinner. I’m a hypocrite, not PETA.
Peta is also Extremely hypocritical but I agree.
My neighbors had a skunk that lived in the garage. Her name was Petunia. The neighbors never got rid of her because she harmed no one and was never problemativc and “where else is she going to live we dont use the garage.” Her or one of her kids who we all assumed was Petunia lived there from at least 1978-2004 (RIP). Petunia literally controlled the block because she was very large. Despite the neighbor hood telling every newcomer about Petunia someone would think their cat can handle it and be surprised that a 15 lb/6kg skunk is in fact terrifying to kitties.
My Nextdoor app = 1000 I lost my cat posts daily.
I lost my cat for a week once but he wasn’t an outdoor cat, he just snuck past as I was coming home in the dark once. It was so difficult to try to explain to people that no, he is not an outside cat, and please please help me get him back home because he doesn’t know how to get home. So many people in the neighbourhood saw him but they just assumed he was an outdoor cat and didn’t bother.
Thankfully I found him after many nights of going out to search for him, but I really can’t imagine people would’ve reacted the same to a lost dog.
This was like 15 years ago but I’m still in the habit of opening my door foot first now to make sure I push any curious kitties back before I walk in.
I thought this happened to me once, and spent several hours looking around the neighborhood just to discover it was still inside. I would have sworn on my life there was no space left unchecked that could physically fit a cat.
This happened and our cat was actually in the space between the screen door and the exterior door. Also sleeping in the closet
I had a idea of how to stop them but my wife wouldn’t let me.
Respond with a picture of a coyote, bobcat, mountain lion, great horned owl or other predator with the caption, “Thank you for dinner, it was delicious.”
I have a friend whose neighbour literally watched their cat get eaten by a coyote in their backyard. The friend still let her own cat out in that same neighbourhood after that happened cause "oh he just keeps getting out, we don’t know how…"🙄 Poor guy got hit by a car some months later.
What a shitty pet guardian. My brother in-law’s cat escaped once and was immediately attacked by a coyote right outside his front door. The cat survived, but used up 8 of his lives. 😆 The difference is the rest of that cat’s life was spent happily living comfortably inside…
Mostly it’s going to be dogs and cars
Where I live, it’s mainly coyote and raccoons.
🤣 Dead!
As a coyote, this hurts me more.
I’ve had to chase the neighbor’s cat away several times in the mornings before work because the scrub jays that had a nest in our bushes would be screaming at 5 in the morning because the cat would be out there
I set up motion detector sprinklers in my yard this year for pretty much the same reason. Has worked really well. I definitely forget they are on sometimes and get blasted but worth it otherwise.
Keep your kids inside too. Kids keep screeching and playing in the middle of the fucking road. Like, get out of the damn road, dumbasses. Someday, a car is gonna hit them.
Leash your pets, leash your kids. Be responsible. Smh
Also, they love to let the little monsters run around in the stores. Is it my fault I ran over one with my grocery cart in produce? No!
Non-dumbass parents understand that they aren’t raising children, but eventual adults. So yes, they have to balance boundaries and letting them fail and learn. Animals will never turn into the equivalent of adult humans. No, not even the absolute smartest animals ever born…
This gets downvoted but it hits the truth, though maybe in macaber way.
Why do we blame cats for killing wildlife while its ok for humans to pave huge pieces of land with concrete and brick or kill biodiversity with pesticides and farm equipment? Maybe humans are the problems, not cats? Or is everyone here living off the grid, does not own a car and produces their own food? Ah and if you have kids you have no argument at all.
Maybe anthropogenic ecological change isn’t merely a thought-terminating excuse for all of it’s subordinate or constituent problems.
