Submission Statement
Between 2001 and 2021, under four U.S. presidents, the United States spent approximately $2.3 trillion, with 2,459 American military fatalities and up to 360,000 estimated Afghan civilian deaths.
After the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan in August 2021, approximately $7.12 billion worth of military equipment was left behind, according to a 2022 Department of Defense report. This equipment, transferred to the Afghan National Defense and Security Forces (ANDSF) from 2005 to 2021, included:
Weapons: Over 300,000 of 427,300 weapons, including rifles like M4s and M16s.
Vehicles: More than 40,000 of 96,000 military vehicles, including 12,000 Humvees and 1,000 armored vehicles.
Aircraft: 78 aircraft, valued at $923.3 million, left at Hamid Karzai International Airport, all demilitarized and rendered inoperable.
Munitions: 9,524 air-to-ground munitions worth $6.54 million, mostly non-precision.
Communications and Specialized Equipment: Nearly all communications gear (e.g., radios, encryption devices) and 42,000 pieces of night vision, surveillance, biometric, and positioning equipment.
The total equipment provided to the ANDSF was valued at $18.6 billion, with the $7.12 billion figure representing what remained after the withdrawal. Much of this equipment is now under Taliban control, though its operational capability is limited due to the need for specialized maintenance and technical expertise.
The United States has provided at least $93.41 billion in total aid to Afghanistan since 2001. This includes:
Military Aid (2001–2020): Approximately $72.7 billion (in current dollars), primarily through the Afghanistan Security Forces Fund ($71.7 billion) and other programs like International Military Education and Training, Foreign Military Financing, and Peacekeeping Operations ($1 billion combined).
Humanitarian and Reconstruction Aid (2001–2025): Around $20.71 billion, including $3 billion in humanitarian and development aid post-2021 and $3.5 billion in frozen Afghan assets transferred to the Afghan Fund in 2022. Pre-2021 reconstruction and humanitarian aid (e.g., $174 million in 2001 and $300 million pledged in 2002) adds to this, though exact figures for the full period are less clear.
Call your rep, ask for Israel to pay reparations
You actually think they were there to stop the Taliban?
Absolutely. The plan was to do in Afghanistan what we’d done in Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Argentina and the Philippines.
We wanted a local aristocracy beholden to the US business interests with a police force willing to brutalize dissidents. Taliban wasn’t that thing, so they needed to be supplanted.
Problem was, the Afghan aristocracy that the US aligned with were more vile than the Taliban and rejected by the public at large. So the US spent 23 years killing everyone who refused to submit to them.
The plan was to grow a shitload of poppy
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/who-responsible-taliban
maybe there is more to it…
Michael Rubin is a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.
I might take this with a large grain of salt. My man is a neocon’s neocon.
If you dig into Afghanistan’s history, particularly with regard to the Soviet Union, there were a lot of parallels between the quasi-socialism of the Soviet occupation and the quasi-liberalism of the American occupation.
In both cases, the occupying army tried to subvert self-determination of the Afghan people. Trying to claim The Taliban as a product of US policy against the Communists or a product of Islamist policy against the Christian Nationalists really misses this as an ongoing effort by Afghanis to secure their own brand of domestic nationalism.
Get down to “Who is responsible?” Rubin doggedly insists that (a) US support for the Taliban in the '70s was worth the price, entirely to keep Communism out of Pakistan. And (b) we are the victims of imperfect policy rather than our own hubris.
Both beliefs are ultimately misguided, even if his history is a fun read.
It’s strange how Rubin glosses over the CIA’s training and arming of the very extremist groups which conducted 911. I don’t see how anyone can try to argue that arming and training such groups was worth it.
Simple. 3000 dead Americans was a small price to pay to bring down the Evil Empire of the USSR and liberate billions of people from Communism.
These people argue that all sacrifices are worth the goal of spreading global freedom even when they turn democracies into dictatorships. These people can never admit they were wrong about anything. Even now when the communist nations are beginning to overtake the west, these fools argue that China is a capitalist nation. They live in a fantasy world.
China is a capitalist nation
Capitalism is when people get rich, and the richer you are, the more capitalist you have become.
But also, Communism is when everyone hates their government. This proves that Americans are the Communists and China are the Capitalists.
but can we agree OPs title is useless? the reminder does neither help nor explain anything. no one won anything. there is no likeable party.
and the USA claims healcare for its citizens is unaffordable
We’re also cutting Veteran benefits, which has been a recurring thing.
I mean yeah, all that, but did you even stop to consider how absolutely insanely wealthy we made like 7 people!?
God you people are so selfish with your wah wah thousands upon thousands have died! Think of the rich people for once!
:P
TBF, withdrawing was a Trump era decision that Joe Biden simply didn’t stop. Trump also released 5,000+ Taliban Fighters just before. I feel like if we didn’t elect people like Donald fucking Trump then the outcome might have been different, it really seems like he was intentionally causing these problems.
I remember Bush had withdrawal plan he started putting in action, then Obama had one, then Trump had one, then Biden had one
Trump absolutely didn’t have a plan unless the plan was to fuck everything up.
Their plan was to reduce us casualties to generate an illusion that the us was winning the war. So they cut a deal with the Taliban: the us would no longer support Afgani government soldiers with air support and in exchange the taliban would not attack us bases. This led to Afghanistan government soldiers quitting and the government collapsing.
At every stage, the US lost more and more territory. By Biden, they’d been hedged into Kabul like the US was backed into Saigon at the end of the Vietnam War.
The idea that we could have just camped out and refused to leave was politically impractical and logistically incredibly difficult. And why would we have been there, except to periodically fling bombs into neighboring territory?
We’d lost the war a decade earlier and simply refused to admit it. By Biden, it was a farce. We didn’t control the country in any meaningful way.
They never had control, they outsourced a lot of the fighting to the warlords they paid, without them they would have been thrown out a lot earlier
I’m sure another 20 years would have been enough
As long as it took. They had a democracy, they had international trade, they had human rights. You can’t put a pricetag on that. The USA was protecting something worth protecting for a change.
They had a democracy, they had international trade, they had human rights. You can’t put a pricetag on that.
Around $2.3 trillion.
How hard is it for you to understand they didn’t want your racist violent military or your corrupt puppet regime ruling them?
Afghanistan has international trade now, and not only that but they also manufacture solar panels and other stuff for local consumption or export.
Your comment is a combination of racism, chauvinism and white saviour complex. Worse, you think you are doing good. Even worse, you are eager to do it all over again in another country against its people’s will.
I’m sorry that you’re on the faction opposing women in education, driving, or any form of authority. I’m sorry that you prefer an actual theocratic dictatorship. I’m at a loss that you didn’t notice the immediate tariffs, sanctions, and funds being frozen when they took over.
I’m on the faction of “it’s none of your business how Afghans govern themselves and you have no right to enforce your norms on them”. If the puppet regime had any real support it wouldn’t have collapsed in weeks.
I’m at a loss that you didn’t notice the immediate tariffs, sanctions, and funds being frozen when they took over.
Who placed the tariffs, sanctions and froze the funds? The US government and its allies being sore losers. You may want to take another look at this:
Previously, Afghanistan’s trade volume did not exceed $850 million annually, but after the return of the Islamic Emirate, exports surged to $2 billion. In 2024, Afghanistan’s total trade reached $12.42 billion, with exports at $1.803 billion and imports at $10.619 billion. In comparison, in 2023, Afghanistan’s exports were $1.884 billion and imports were $7.71 billion. This shows a 4% decrease in exports and a 38% increase in imports in 2024 compared to the previous year.
https://www.bakhtarnews.af/en/afghanistans-total-trade-achieves-12-42-billion-milestone-in-2024/
It became their business many times over the decades starting when it became a strategic territory in the proxy wars between the west and the east. Surrendering to authoritarianism might seem like a cool idea until you’ve given up everything and allowed everyone to suffer. Some fights are unavoidable.
How other people govern themselves is everyone’s business. This isnt a difference of opinion it is brutal totalitarianism. People are killed and you hide behind it being a difference of culture. It isnt acceptable. That said the US are shitbags.
I disagree with you on the former and it reeks of white-saviour-complex, but I agree with you on the latter. One out of two, isn’t bad.
Try to meddle in other countries’ business, try to force your norms on them, and you will be met with resistance. If your values are so much better and universal you wouldn’t need to force them on other nations through military and economic coercion.
Edit: I guess you are from the UK. You claim to care about people getting needlessly killed, but if UK troops do it it is okay?: Afghanistan: UK special forces ‘killed 9 people in their beds’
LOL this guy again, Eglin Airforce Base?
“Being frozen” The US vulgar thieves stole it.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/16/afghanistan-money-biden-white-hosue-usLmao, that money never belonged to the theocracy.
sure thief
LOL
When the first installed puppet got a bit of remorse when he saw the butchery of the US they replaced him with a literal American, Ghani.
They pulled a reverse Jolani, they made him grow a beard and wear traditional clothes since the locals knew what he was and disliked him.
https://thegrayzone.com/2021/09/02/afghanistan-ashraf-ghani-corrupt/And same as the US he stole all the money and gold he could get his paws on.
This from a country left in ruins and misery after what the US did.
Democracy my ass.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/16/afghanistan-money-biden-white-hosue-us
LOL cope
My goddamn brother in law, gung-ho air Force dude, is trying to get his Gen Z kids to enlist because it worked out so well for him. He enlisted during the magical late 90s so he wasn’t shipped anywhere. Hardest thing he had to do was pushups and whatever hazing the other soldiers put him through.
Uh late 90s would line up with being deployed early 00s.
Don’t forget the money and weapons you gave them before.
I forget, which movie was this from?
The Greatest US warrior of allThe first was for himself. The second for his country. This time it’s to save his friend. 😉
I think the text is doctored, in the OG film it’s not so explicit. Feel free to correct me though, I’m working off “I heard it somewhere”.
The movie is Rambo 3 and you are correct. The real dedication is to the “Gallant people of Afghanistan”.
There is some debate about who doctored it yes.
Can’t mistake the message of the movie tho
Is this text AI generated? The civilian death toll in the “submission statement” is about 6x higher than accepted numbers and about 100K higher than all total deaths in the entire conflict.
IMO (AI or not) slop like this just “floods the zone with shit” while doing noting to help the progressive cause.
This is in the first paragraph of what you linked:
The Cost of War project estimated in 2015 that the number who have died through indirect causes related to the war may be as high as 360,000 additional people based on a ratio of indirect to direct deaths in contemporary conflicts.
I shouldn’t need to tell you that that is a completely different statistic. You don’t need to muddy the waters of truth to make the point.
And yet, I’ve seen people on here criticize the withdrawal. Like, how much longer did you wanna stay, dawg? Another 20 years so the proxy we set up would last another week?
People didn’t criticize the withdrawal itself (at least non-monsters didn’t). People criticized the fact that in so many years there was no robust infrastructure built. They broke whatever was there before them, fucked around for decades, achieved jack shit, and left leaving power vacuum.
People didn’t criticize the withdrawal itself (at least non-monsters didn’t).
I mean, I’m not going to disagree with characterizing these .worlders for example as monsters, but it’s not as if it was a fringe position.
This happened a lot around Afghanistan too.
If there’s one thing both sides love in this country, it’s permanent warfare, provided they can get the poors to do all the fighting and dying.
So many people are “anti-war,” except for the current one.
We have 10,000 troops permanently stationed in the UK. Another 12,000 permanently stationed in Italy. Another 25,000 permanently stationed in Korea. 35,000 permanently stationed in Germany. 52,000 permanently stationed in Japan.
We should have established a similar, permanent presence in Afghanistan. Come back to me in 80 years, after their economy looks like South Korea’s, and we can start to discuss a drawdown.
Come back to me in 80 years
On the one hand, props for putting a number to it, on the other, Jesus Fucking Christ.
You realize that all the countries’ governments you listed have at least consented to us being there, whereas Afghanistan specifically said they wanted us gone?
Just going full Genghis Khan over here. As if the brazen conquest wasn’t bad enough, you want to condemn our grandkids to the continued subjugation of their grandkids. Absolutely insane.
Ehhh kinda. For many of those countries, the troops were a leftover of occupation, it was a choice but kind of a forced one, you don’t want to upset your overlords.
In the EU, with the increased independence as the organization grew, calls to send the American troops home became stronger and stronger.
I’m not trying defend those deployments, I hate the military as much as anyone. But the fascist I’m arguing with is trying to use those deployments as a justification for a hostile, century long occupation with the goal of forcibly erasing their culture through force. All I’m saying is, those are not the same thing.
Ask the women and girls of Afghanistan if they want us gone. The women and girls who are no longer allowed to attend school, and can look forward to generations of total subjugation.
Why do you hold the opinions of their oppressors in such high regard?
You say they asked us to leave. They dont have a government with sufficient legitimacy to even make such a request. They won’t have one until several generations of school kids have been raised to believe their mothers and sisters are actual people, not just some weird furniture.
When the first generation of co-ed Afghani school kids are in nursing homes and hospice, we can start listening to Afghan opinions about our continued presence.
Yes, permanent installations, influencing their economy and culture for decades. So that our grandkids see them grow into a nation more comparable to South Korea than North Korea.
The only language you imperialist bastards will ever understand is force, thankfully, Afghans know how to speak it. May the message spread around the world.
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If that were true, you’d have a lot in common with them. How many women were murdered by the occupation? I wonder, how long your country would have to occupied to stop people from thinking and acting like you? Because I think we should leave Afghanistan alone and start there.
I hope that you find yourself on the receiving end of what you support.
LOL still salty about being kicked out
I bet you don’t know the first elections after the invasion were already won by the Taliban after which the US decided they had to do it again without them participating.
What people do and their customs are not your business.
Why don’t you invade Saudi Arabia then?
Where they hang people every day.What people do and their customs are not your business.
I cast a mental vote on behalf of each and every woman in the country. Votes that they and you ignore.
Theybare subjected to a government they did not choose. That pisses me right the fuck off.
You pretend to care about women’s rights to justify and whitewash your gigantic large scale warcrimes. You bomb women, men and children indiscriminately.
Are you bombing the children of Iran and Palestine to promote womens rights too? I’m sure they’ll love you for it.
Now piss off, you make me sick with your holier-than-thou BS.
These Afghan women married and gave birth to the men ruling over them. They’re at least somewhat complicit in this. They had 20 years to breed a more liberal generation of men, but they did not.
Taliban had such an easy time taking back control because nobody gave a shit.
Ah, yes. It is the slave’s fault that they do their master’s bidding. They are complicit. They could just overthrow the overseers. Instead, they provide them with the means of their own enslavement.
That’s you. That’s what you sound like.
The slaves didn’t raise their own masters.
The US backed Afghani government lasted less than one day because NOBODY wanted it. Only the Americans did. It’s not part of Afghani culture to send women to school and such. It’s like forcing Americans at gunpoint to eat salad instead of McDonald’s.
It’s not part of Afghani culture to send women to school and such
What bunch of bs. Before taliban created by the united snake , women was stupying and working In the 1980s, about 40% of doctors and 60% of teachers in Kabul were women.
You are like the racists settlers who was calling Indigenous people savages. Shame on you
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You should mind your own business and stay TF out of other countries
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Lol. Imperialism is what made Afghanistan today.
Exactly! So not doing imperialism to them is racist.
You have it wrong. Not doing imperialism to them is classism.
Synthesis: race and class are intertwined, not doing imperialism to afghanistan oppresses them on both axes.
didn’t usa also train the taliban? because they didn’t want ussr to have afghanistan
Yes but actually no. Mujahideen (did I spell that correctly?) were CIA funded as they opposed the Russian invasion.
A lot of former Mujahideen fighters did end up in both Taliban and Al-Quebec (autocorrect tells me that’s the right spelling) after the soviet-Afghan war, including Osama himself. While allied, they are separate entities.
They are allies and with common roots, but saying Taliban was trained by CIA is an oversimplification. Some of its members were, yes, but that was long before Taliban was a thing.
Also, the paragon of Aged Like Milk:
Hahahahahahahhqhahaa!!! Al-Quebec!
The French Canadian province would like a word
So it wasn’t these guys that ended up in Afghanistan somehow?
Ehh, we’re here to bring you to Allah ya hosers.
Sorry, eh.
No. The Taliban only got started after the Soviets left. But the US funded and trained the Mujahedeen which later created Al-Quaeda.
Riiight, tell me, what does the word ‘mujahedeen’ mean?
And why are they trying to hide it then if it’s so on the level?
You americans sure love those name tricks.
Like this POS ISIS headchopper:
Nooo, he’s Ahmed al-Sharaa now and no longer from Al Quaida but totally harmless HTS.
No, US funded what became Al-Qaeda, but the word Mohajed is usually used for a certain mix of Marxist and Islamist which is not common in our world anymore. The, eh, Islamic Republic of Iran in its ideology bears a significant trace of that though.
Couldn’t be more wrong, Mujahedeen:“one who struggles on behalf of Islam”, they are religious fundamentalists and the US knew it then and now.
As they still support ISIS or whatever scumbag proxy doing their killing for them.
It has certainly nothing to do with Marxism.I’ve literally told you where to look for an example. You are wrong. That this syncretism seems impossible to you means nothing.
In the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan local leftist-Islamist groups (with just a few al-Qaeda like ones) were against the USSR, while the secular-leftist government remnants were its ally (after they created the whole situation by assassinating the friendly dictator, it’s complex).
Mojahed has, yes, a rather wide meaning, but politically it’s associated with left-Islamist groups.
Shia fundamentalism is pretty socialist. Actually Islamic (including right and Sunni) fundamentalism in general has a lot about support nets, helping poor and such. They also have their own “not dirty” financial organization methods, like “Islamic banking”.
What had to be done to make political Islam the jihadi-Christian\Yazidi-beheading-ISIS-like-Caliphate-willing movement again, since the Ottoman empire, was a lot of work by western nations and a few small Arab monarchies. In Soviet times it was basically the western MO, to support-create-guide right-wing and fundamentalist organizations as opposed to the kind of movements USSR’s appearances attracted.
Of course, now they are trying to wash their hands.
“That’s why the Taliban is so deadly and effective — hapkido training. Where’d they learn that? From Steven Seagal’s fat ass. Why do you think Kelly Lebrock left him? 'Cause he’s Taliban.”
We did.
There’s a whole joke about it in The Boys when the Soldier Boy character is revived.
They trained them, gave them weapons and assistance as much as they could.
Don’t believe the revisionist trolls bcs the name is different.
They were the same people with the same beliefs.
Just ask the trolls what Mujahideen stands for?
Or where they got the stinger missiles?Adds another ~4 billion to the equation.
Trump is deporting afghan collaborators who came here after that war.
doubt
Good, they are traitors to their country
L take. please look up how the taliban treats their own people. they are a regressive ruling class and are extremely cruel to their own people. especially women and children.
they didnt betray their country, they didnt want to live under an archaic group of power grabbing religious fanatics. there is a difference.
they are a regressive ruling class and are extremely cruel to their own people. especially women and children.
They treat them far better than America treats middle easterners
please look up how the taliban treats their own people
Okay, but then look at how the Heroin smugglers and child sex traffickers that ran Afghanistan under the US treated their own people.
I don’t need to do shit.
Looks like you don’t know anything about it except what your propaganda fed you.
They VOTED overwhelmingly for the Taliban in the first elections held under US invader occupation regime.
OC that wasn’t to their liking so they annuled it and redid them without the Taliban.
The american way of democracy.Looks like you don’t know anything about it except what your propaganda fed you
its widely known what the taliban consider crime and punishment. i dont subscribe to the idea that the US are the good guys either. without them getting involved in the first place, the taliban wouldnt have existed. however i wont ignore the mountains of available evidence and first hand reports that came from the middle east, before, during, and after the invasion. on both sides.
the taliban are not everyones cup of tea when considering a ruling class, this guy in particular chose not to live under that rule. it doesnt make him a traitor to his country. the political leadership of a country is not the country. its just the current establishment. the middle east has an incredibly diverse set of issues and groups vying for power and control, foreign, and domestic. you cant blame someone for wanting to get away from all that.
blind nationalism is for fools. that goes for anyone living in any country.
Are people who leave the US now in the wake of the Trump Administration also traitors to their country?
Absolutely not.
Ridiculous comparison.
Did a foreign army invade the US and those US citizens collaborated with them, helped them interrogate and torture Americans and plenty more?As of 2022, there were about 195k Afghan immigrants in the US. The vast majority of them coming in after 2010. Did they all help torture people?
Can you count? You invaders and looters were there until 2021.
Plenty of collaborators until the last minute.
Did you forget when your regime goons shot dozens of them in a panic when the last planes left Kabul and a crowd of traitors wanted to join?Are you saying all those refugees showed up in 2022?
I’m saying I have enough of you propaganda trolls.
Your ‘are you saying’ and other transparent fallacy tactics are boring and lame.
You’ve been dealth with and you’re doinf a lousy job. Eglin should fire you.
Better luck somewhere else.
This shit haunts me sometimes. I remember hearing somewhere that the Taliban actually offered to deliver OBL to the US if they would promise not to invade and we were like “get fucked, idiot”. How many people’s lives did we needlessly destroy, regardless of nationality, both in Iraq and Afghanistan? What else could have been bought besides misery with the nearly four trillion between those two wars?
I didnt know about any of this. The article I read mentioned they offered to put him on trial prior to 9/11 too for his other crimes in the 90s. America is literally the idiot bully who yells over anything you say and then eventually punches you in the face while you are confused.
He also died of natural causes.
Been invisible for a decade and wouldn’t you know it, a few months before the presidential elections “we got him”.
Somehow they showed no footage of him being heroically killed by the brave GI Joe’s.
They go trough all the trouble of taking his body during a dangerous raid in a hostile country, but somehow they decide all on their own to throw his body from the ship.
LOLTF is the point of that link?
1 It doesn’t mention Bin Laden
2 Wikipedia is a garbage sourceAnd does any of the FACTS and official explanation I mention sound reasonable?
Then I have a bridge to sell you.
Iirc what they offered was to put him on trial. Which is lol worthy.
Oh, okay. Hmm, yeah, that seems sus.
Yeah, brown people shouldn’t receive due process.
it’s the journey that counts?
The friends we made along the way <3
Never get involved in someone else’s civil war.
Please stick to the rivers and the lakes that you’re used to.
What about starting them? Is that allowed?
No, only coups and revolutions
Booooo
-the world seeing the Spanish Republic bombed to dust by Nazis and Italian Fascists in 1936-1939
Books are where it’s at!
Because yanks have always thought that they’re somehow special, that things will be different when they do it
Actually, most yanks don’t feel this way. Big business, CIA/FBI, Gov’t wants resources, weapon sales, drug and human trafficking, all things to keep the rich …rich. They use the two party system, which is really a uni-party system controlled by them, to keep the masses fighting amongst themselves while they proceed with war and taking away human rights under war-times.
I get you, but I’m not just talking about US military aggression
I’m talking about the whole absurd notion of American exceptionalism
I’ve known so many Americans who have been relatively educated and aware of the world outside of 'Murica, but even then they are shocked that the rest of the world does things differently, usually better, and that they aren’t special to anyone other than themselves
If you live in a more civilised part of the country, and move in more educated and civilised circles, it’s horrifying how ignorant the overwhelming majority of Americans are
Things being different is simply beyond their ken
And I understand your point, but you are generalizing also. I think it would be better to say SOME American’s are like what you describe, and I would say, because it is usually a class thing within American society. Lower, middle, even some upper classes don’t get to travel, or don’t want to (or go on horrible isolated cruise ships,) outside the US and aren’t exposed to the world they grew up in. Also, our education system, thanks to the rich again, has been destroyed. But, that doesn’t apply to everyone, and when you generalize, it is offensive to many. There is an American pride that is built in to our upbringing, as in most places, but what might be unique here is the rich/corporate/gov’t exploit that patriotism and use it as propaganda so it is easier to manufacture the selling of war.
Americans definitely all seem to be patriotic, like they say stuff like, “I’m as patriotic as the next guy, but was carpet bombing all those villages worth it?”
That’s a defense mechanism. If you don’t say “I support the troops” first, your opinion has no credibility because you’re a hippie tree hugger. Sad, but that’s how it is.
Books are where it’s at!
Definitely
This is correct.
And we didn’t learn our lesson from the Vietnamese, because most people here aren’t able to read above a third-grade level.
Well, with Vietnam, we literally did a fucking false flag to give ourself a pretense.
I really can’t blame 9/11 Truthers that much, the fact that the Gulf of Tonkin shit happened is fucking insane. Vietnam won its independence fair and square, we should have stayed the fuck out.
Don’t forget the attack on the Liberty.
I started viewing 9/11 videos at the time to laugh at these guys but there are 100’s of things that are too wrong with it.
Most of it wiped of the web and plenty of crazy stories planted to muddy the waters and delegitimise serious efforts by association.
Really, don’t dig deep or you’ll be one of us.Or when they orchestrated the toppling of a Saddam Husein statue.
Or the Jessica Lynch fake rescue story?Glad the impartial free and democratic press don’t do stuff like that anymore.
Remember this guy? 🤣
Not trying to salvage America’s involvement in Vietnam, but I wonder if at the time there was genuinely strong evidence that communism would go unchecked if US didn’t try. It is probably with hindsight we think that the communist world turned out not to be as united as one would have presumed.
I guess - even if Domino Theory was true - why the fuck was that our business? The people of Vietnam overthrew their colonial oppressors, wanted to create their own government and we said “nah, you don’t get to do that.”
Which kinda happened everywhere in decolonized states. There was still this paternalistic attitude of “well, you still don’t get to be a sovereign country, we’re going to ‘help’ you set up a government.” That’s why so much of Africa is a shitshow - because Europe and the US backed terrible leaders out of a hatred of communism. If a nation of people chose communism, what moral right did the West have to intervene?
It was continued colonial occupation. There’s no other way to describe it.
And even for colonialism turned out to not be perfect. Look at Surinam, they had a socialist somethinglution, broke away from Netherlands, and now they are in some association and basically like Britain’s dominions, except Britain’s dominions are almost fully settler entities.
I guess - even if Domino Theory was true - why the fuck was that our business?
If a nation of people chose communism, what moral right did the West have to intervene?
Well yes, but at the same time on the other side of the Iron Curtain, they still do believe in exporting communist revolutions to other countries even if the member states have disagreements.
The domino theory has been influential in the West, and but it also go both ways and was also prevalent on the communist bloc but the reverse. After all, USSR also suppressed popular liberalising, but not necessarily anti-communist, movements in Eastern Europe.
What’s america problem with socialism in other countries? It’s none of the united snake business
Simple, socialism/communism is opposed to fascism/capitalism.
Can’t have that.
About as strong as the yellow cake memo was for evidence of WMD’s in Iraq.
Why tho, they lost everything from Korea, Vietnam to running in the night from their last base in Afghanistan.
Shit I’m wrong, they heroically beat Grenada
As much as I dislike nationalism, certain section of right wing nationalists (specifically isolationists) made a point that foreign interventionism and invading other countries isn’t being nationalistic.
The point isn’t that they’re nationalistic, it’s that they’re arrogant. They think they have something special, just because they’re yanks
The reality is that their soldiers are actually quite shit
And that is encouraged through hijacking patriotism.
Hugely promoted in the US.
As a European it’s mindboggling to see how much they push that.
Can’t have an event without a ridiculously sized flag, sing the anthem, first ball thrown by some military dude, honor the veterans…
And then they have murder jets fly over a stadium.
Sickening.
“Invade Afghanistan, you will regret it,” is one of history’s NCDish lessons. Like:
- Don’t invade Russia in winter.
- Don’t let Germany get too economically depressed.
- Don’t let the Chinese people get too unhappy with their govt.
Iran feels geographically close enough to inherit the curse for sure.
Iran has been invaded quite a few times with rather satisfying results for those doing the invasions.
And most important:
Because america is special?
I don’t think that’s what they’re after. It’s oil and money somehow at the root, it always is.
It’s Israeli hegemony. The entire point of American conquest in the Middle East is Zionism.
Really? Isn’t it famously petroleum and shipping lanes?
It’s kind of a package deal; Israeli domination of the middle east also means domination of the oil and shipping.
Another facet is just good old fashion military industrial profeteering
Nah. Whenever I see Zionism used as a giant umbrella, I know that person is stirring up shit and/or is antisemitic.
Whenever I hear an inconvenient theory I turn off critical thinking and assassinate the person’s character in my mind
Genetic fallacy
It’s the other way around. Zionism is a tool, not an end goal.
Let’s see how your critical thinking got you to that end result. Show your work.
