The ceremony aired on a two-hour delay on BBC One in the U.K. and on E! in the U.S. and yet the slur remained in the broadcast. Deadline noted that other remarks were censored, including the BBC cutting Akinola Davies Jr.’s “free Palestine” comment at the end of his speech.
I can excuse the dude with the verbal tic having an outburst, understandable. What gets my goat is that you fucks censored the Free Palestine comment instead.
Before y’all start
If someone with Coprolalia had a tic to shout “let’s fuck” whenever they saw a child, we’d rightfully be taken aback. Maybe forgiving after having the disorder explained but hard to say for that kids parents.
I use this analogy because for some reason when it comes to Black people, people forget we’re humans with ongoing racial history and slurs are always harmful and always offensive especially in a highly public event.
He should apologize directly to the Black folk that were impacted, not to the general audience who couldn’t give a damn that he said hard R - they can keep the general apology.
His tic is saying the most inappropriate thing at the time. It is not a specific tic, he says whatever he shouldn’t say and he can’t not. Those affected by that (Which doesn’t just include the people on stage, but an entire PoC audience) have every right to feel however they feel about it, be that hurt, humiliated, threatened, denigrated or whatever combination of that is applicable. Given the history of that term and the way it happened in the middle a moment celebrating a cultural achievement of black artists I would be fully understanding of having been affected by the outburst… But John Davidson did not intend to cause offense, and had no meaningful way of not doing what he did, and that must be taken into account. (And to a lesser extent it should also be remembered that this is also deeply humiliating for him)
people forget we’re humans with ongoing racial history and slurs are always harmful and always offensive especially in a highly public event.
this is a mentally ill person w/ a condition which makes him transgress taboos. obviously yelling racial slurs is rightfully a shameful thing to do. no one is forgetting that-- that reasonable taboo is precisely what he couldn’t help but trangress.
He should apologize directly to the Black folk that were impacted, not to the general audience
i imagine he did. do you think he should have made a public, private apology?
From what I’ve seen, he didn’t specifically apologize to the people affected and instead made a broad apology. It’s a shitty situation, but I think him not immediately apologizing to the Delroy and Jordan makes me less immediately sympathetic to him. It’s possible he offered private apologies but it doesn’t seem like that’s the case so far.
Should he be required to do this every time he has a tic?
EDIT:
So apparently people feel very strongly about this. I have a cousin with this condition. It is not conscious and not directed when a tic like this happens. It’s literally a disability. From an early age he’s learned to be generally apologetic when an offensive tic comes out. All the fucking time. Once people know he has the condition it’s generally understood they are to be ignored at that point and ignoring them actually helps them diminish in frequency. Anxiety around tics really pushes them out more. People were warned ahead of time that neuro-divergent people were in the crowd who may have uncontrollable tics.
It isn’t directed. It doesn’t work that way. So the article even saying it was shouted “at” these men is incorrect fundamentally. It was shouted. That’s it. The guy left after the incident which is what happens often. Neuro-divergent people like this are consistently not welcomed into neuro-normative spaces and neuro-normatives have many demands that must be met before they can be tolerated in only the most performative ways.
That is how it is because it’s condition that interrupts all neuro-normative spaces. Pretty much always. It’s more or less unavoidable. To demand so much extra effort be placed on the neuro-divergent because their uncontrollable condition interrupted neuro-normativeness is so ridiculous to me that it edges firmly into ableism. I’m sad to see this kind of ableism accepted in this community.
I think Michael B. Jordan and Delroy Lindo are graceful men and handled it fine. I think the host handled it fine. I think the apology from Davidson was fine. I think the main villain here is the broadcaster for not just censoring the word (they clearly are reveling in the controversy, fuck them) and BAFTA themselves for not stepping up to make sure Mr Jordan and Mr Lindo were fully up to speed and not actually being prepared for the inevitable.
If his tic is saying slurs to Black people then absolutely.
His tic is saying the most inappropriate thing to anyone in any situation. I’m not sure how he’s supposed to function mentally if he has to apologise to people endlessly.
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No, but a big public setting like this seems an appropriate time for it. Not saying he needs to flagellate himself nor have even apologized in the heat of the moment. There are plenty of ways to make up for an incident like this, even well afterwards. He still might. I’m not saying the guy is beyond redemption or saying anything beyond where my initial sympathies lie. Sinners is an important black film, this was an event that was, amongst other things, honoring black art and black people during black history month and now much discussion about Sinners will be hijacked by this incident. An incident that many people will use in bad faith. Look at the times we live in. Idk for me personally, I apologize for so much less than this so it just seems strange not to actually apologize to the persons most directly affected.
Shitty situation.
Edit: I also don’t love how people have been emphasizing how much we should feel for this guy but nearly none of that same empathy has been extended to the black people affected. Yeah it would suck to have this condition. It would also suck to get berated because of your skin color and then get told you don’t even deserve an apology.
To be clear this was a choice by the broadcaster to not censor it out. They censored out other things in the broadcast.
Sinners is an important black film
it’s liberal and bad.
I’m not ItsVibes, what you said shouldn’t happen but I think it’s be reasonable he did it at least every time he used a slur against a minority person (for example this case) and the other person didn’t know about his condition
The whole point of apologizing is first and foremost to acknowledge damage done. People who are aware of his condition might (and only might) not be as hurt, and that’s why in those cases such a strong apology might not be needed.
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From what I heard he left the ceremony shortly after the incident. I do agree that he should try to apologize to them, but I think in the moment all the shame and embarrassment understandably got to him, and he ran away so as not to cause more disturbance in the moment.
Meanwhile Michael B Jordan and Lindo would’ve been on stage and then back in their seats in the auditorium. I suppose the guy with tourettes could’ve waited until afterwards to find them.
He did it to two other people.
i imagine he did. do you think he should have made a public, private apology?
Last I saw, Michael B. Jordan and Delroy Lindo didn’t get one.
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It’s not “whenever they saw a child”
He has an uncontrollable condition, and I’d say easily 8/10 people online complaining about him are claiming that he chose to say what he said.
How does everyone being impatient with people being willfully ignorant harm you?
Does he say it to white people?
You do not need to explain tourettes, I understand tourrettes. It’s almost patronizing to assume this is a conversation about not understanding what a disability is.
This is a conversation on mitigating harm, and you can cause harm and slurs cause harm even if you’re disabled and it’s unintentional. Asking for some kind of apology or accountability is the least that can be done.
Brushing this off surprised we (Black people) are offended is shallow bullshit.
Does he say it to white people?
He says fuck the queen to the queen, he says he has a bomb in crowds, he confesses to random crimes to cops. If he thought cracker was extremely inappropriate he would likely yell that at white people.
You say you understand, but that question reveals that you do not.You’re asking a man who involuntarily says the most taboo thing in any given situation to annihilate his self worth on the daily by constantly having to apologise for his existence.
No one should be asked to do that. I’m sorry that his existence makes you uneasy.
No one here that I’ve seen would even remotely disagree that Black people don’t have a right to be offended over racial slurs or demand accountability from the organizers of this event, who definitely could have handled this better so that it does not take away from this celebration of Black artistry. I fully agree that the people affected have the right to speak up about it.
However, as someone with Tourette’s (not this variety or severity, thankfully), you really don’t seem to understand the condition, or are at least letting your (fully justified) anger towards the situation get in the way of discussing your points. This is the reason you are receiving pushback, not because of a dismissal of the issues and hostility that PoC face.
Thank you for demonstrating my point. Genuinely perfect rendition of the “You’re racist for assuming I don’t understand Tourette’s” followed by ignorance of Tourette’s. Chef’s kiss. This is why I have no grace.
me, listening to michael b jordan’s speech interrupted by involuntary racial epithets on repeat, conspicuously shaking my head to let ya’ll know i disagree.
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It’s an awful situation. Unequivocally fuck the BBC and BAFTA, who showed they could exercise editorial censorship when they omitted Free Palestine. And while a warning was given to attendants, it should’ve been more explicit. And having a racial slur yelled at you at a celebration of your craft is a nightmarish situation that can’t have its emotional sting removed by an intellectual understanding of the situation.
But the amount of ableism I’ve seen is pretty maddening. People will say they understand tourettes with one breath and then ask why he wasn’t calling white presenters crackers.
I have sympathy for everything listed above, and fuck the right wingers going “oh but you say it in your rap music” but this is just as much a conversation about disability as it is about race. The man has been hospitalized multiple times because of scenarios like this.
Yeah this is one of those situations where I just feel bad for everyone involved.
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Damn I looked into this guy’s condition, feel hella bad for everyone involved. Death to the BBC
Must be a hellish condition to live with for sure.
I have some really bad OCD ruminations, if I had tourrettes I’d be cooked
I have some really bad OCD ruminations
Same! I got diagnosed with OCD right after my mom passed. I still have intrusive racist thoughts, but I’m on meds for that and it soothes it quite a bit. Residual brainworms from when I was a chud.
Censoring racial slurs.
Censoring facts that make fascists Big Mad.Yes, I read into this a bit as well. Very tough situation on all sides. Apparently he said racial slurs to another black cast/crew member three times on the night too.
Coprolalia is apprently one of the most difficult forms of tourettes - with it basically just making you anxious about saying the worst thing possible to say - and then blurting it out.
You see it in the movie that was based off him - where he blurts out he’s smuggling heroin to policemen, or getting into fights with people bigger than him.
Apparently in real life he yelled “Fuck the queen” as he was getting knighted, shouted to police that he had a bomb, and then yelled at Prince Charles that Camilla takes it up the ----.
Disgraceful that the BBC didn’t edit out the incident at the ceremony, and handled it like they did, but did edit out the Palestine moment (and apparently another joke from the host about tensions in America). Someone should’ve been there to give more of an apology than ‘sorry if you were offended’ too.
I do get that maybe it’s tough because you’re then editing out a person’s disability on an evening when their disability is at the forefront of a movie that’s being celebrated, but on the whole I don’t see an upside to keeping it in. It’s upsetting for Michael B Jordan and Delroy Lindo - along with any other black person who’s seen it really - and the man with tourettes has been ripped apart - with Jamie Foxx even saying ‘he meant it’…
with Jamie Foxx even saying ‘he meant it’…
Jesus Christ! The guy should know better, fucking ableist bullshit.
Seems a bit unproductive to do that if what you meant to do was show how racist you are. People might assume you have a disability and didn’t mean it.
So I never saw Sinners, but if the movie explores that, and I don’t know how it does, then I think I’d side with not censoring it because of that. I think obviously someone goes up to the duo to explain and apologize and it seems that what the center of the controversy is. In my mind censoring-not censoring is secondary and the headline that centralizes the illness seems mortifying if I were in his shoes. I know “Half-hearted apology after awkward moment” isn’t good input for the outrage machine, but that’s what the situation should be. If someone on crutches fell onto the red carpet while you’re walking, you wouldn’t be like “you asshole!” This should be the kind of embarrassing that he should talk about in a stand up comedy routine, not blasting him into the news.
Oh no, Sinners explores severe racism and cultural appropriation - white vampires try to infiltrate a blues party, to steal their music and bodies - or something along those lines, I don’t know, I didn’t really enjoy it that much so I never tried to get to the bottom of it.
I meant that the man with tourettes had a movie about his life being celebrated at the BAFTAs, with lots of nominations and the coveted ‘best male actor’ going to the lead of the movie Robert Aramayo - portraying the man with tourettes in the audience.
Michael B Jordan and Delroy Lindo were talking about Sinners at the time it happened, but its all on the same evening. As I said, I think they should’ve just censored it for everyone’s sake, but I can see some sort of argument as to why they didn’t.
Ohhhhh, I definitely skimmed the article and what you were saying and came away believing the duo were talking about a movie in which tourettes was being explored as a theme when it happened.
Then yeah, censoring would have been prudent. But all the same, the fallout should have been negligible because someone apologizes to the two actors. Short of that, the controversy should have been the negligence of the hosts. And I suppose they optimized for clicks with the title while trying to do justice with the first sentence being
Lindo said he and his “Sinners” costar “did what we had to do” while presenting, but he wished “someone from BAFTA spoke to us afterwards.”
So a lot of annoyances along the way to get to this point. It made for sloppy handling of the situation. Even if you’re not prepared, you, the people in charge of the event, not the person with the disability, just go up to them and say sorry.
Just to clarify for you, Sinners isn’t the movie about Tourettes - it’s the one that MBJ/Delroy Lindo are in. I didn’t watch the documentary tho, so IDK much about this guy in the documentary.
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Yet another demonstration that you can have multiple marginalized identities, but at the end of the day, if you’re white, you’re white first and those marginalized identities second.
Incidentally it also revealed this site isn’t remotely safe for POC like at all, apparently there are hexbears who believe disability induced racism is a thing and it’s acceptable and questioning it make you ableist
When you intentionally misunderstand and misrepresent Tourette’s syndrome to such an absurd degree, obviously you’re going to get called ableist. I would not even think to question a PoC voice about being justifiably upset over this incident or dismiss their thoughts and feelings. But no way am I listening to anyone who calls a condition that I and many other people suffer from a “fake racism disability” or whatever absurd strawman you’ve conjured.
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I didn’t called it fake, for all I know that man is suffering from medically induced racism
Medically induced racism is not a thing, and you know that. By implying that this is what Tourette’s syndrome (which you know is the real condition) is, you are insulting and demeaning people that have it (including me) by characterizing it thusly.
doesn’t change the fact that racism is causing serious harm
Of course racism is causing serious harm. Racism is one of the most serious and abhorrent societal ills, and there’s not a single true leftist who would claim otherwise. This is not in dispute, nor is it anywhere close to my argument.
In a similar vein of claims of medically induced pedophilia or induced necrophilia
These are not the subject of discussion either, nor do I know anything about them.
No, when a medical condition leads to a person harming others, the ethical onus falls on them and their caregivers to implement harm reduction strategies that minimize or eliminate the potential to harm others
I agree. Regarding the current controversy, there are many ways in which this could have been addressed or otherwise prevented.
Black people are not in any way, shape or form obligated to sit there quietly and take racist abuse
I also agree, nor would I claim otherwise. As I have already said.
then avoidance strategies become his obligation and he should never be in the line of sight of a black person, EVER!
You clearly do not understand Tourette’s syndrome even a little, which brings us back to my original point of contention. It is not a “racism disease.” This form of it causes a neurological disconnect affecting the ability to hold back from verbalizing thoughts that the person knows are taboo. These are not the man’s “true thoughts” because that’s not how the brain works. People with this form of the syndrome may end up saying all sorts of held back verbalizations, which may or may not be racial slurs. This does not make those words okay. Ever. No one here is excusing racism or racial slurs. Black people have the right to be offended by slurs because it does them great harm, and you have every right to be angry at their use here. But you are mischaracterizing why this happened and how this happened, and in your ignorance, you are lashing out in a harmful, ableist fashion. As a leftist on a leftist forum, you should be ashamed that you are letting a legitimate issue anger and incense you towards a reactionary take towards people with a medical condition. No better than a fascist.
We clear now you lost cracker?
You sure you don’t want to call me a slur for people with Tourette’s instead?
John Davidson is not a racist for having a neurological condition that forces him to vocalize things.
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I don’t get the point of your post other than ableism? If John Davidson had to apologise for every tic he just wouldn’t be able to function as a person. No one should have to apologise for existing.
Not to mention that he probably does apologize for a good majority of them. I know I do whenever my tics cause issues (although I am very lucky to have my condition not be anywhere near as severe as Davidson’s)
Should I listen to Cuban voices too
Black people not wanting to be called slurs are gusanos, good take you got there
I don’t subscribe to standpoint epistemology because I’m an adult.
Unless of course its someone shouting slurs, in which case you’re a premium subscriber
Incoherent
Says the one calling Black people gusanos for practicing rudimentary self-care
brother i’ve been on the coli posting idris elba w/tented fingers image macros for years.
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