EDIT: fwiw I hunted down this thread and it turns out that OP actually did some self-crit, which was more positive than I was expecting https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDigitalCircus/comments/1ucu9hl/jax_being_trans_and_my_opinion_as_a_cis_straight/
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i am once again vindicated for my incredible ability to enjoy something without interacting with The Fandom™ in the slightest
wait isnt Kinger still a straight cis man, what is blud waffling about
Yes, but he’s a non-toxic father figure. What dudes liked about Jax was specifically her mask of cynicism and cruelty and emotional distance, ironically all the stuff that first broke Ribbit and Kaufmo and then Jax herself.
very reassuring that i didnt like her until the mask started slipping. thought she was just comic relief jaded asshole until then. god i love that fuckass rabbit
EDIT: fwiw I hunted down this thread and it turns out that OP actually did some self-crit, which was more positive than I was expecting
Yay, friendship is magic!
I mean, OP still has some bad opinions it seems but they at started thinking about how their views might be problematic. Maybe. Hopefully.
OP originally didn’t want to watch the show cause his friends said it was gay. Coming off of that I didn’t expect much growth and honestly I’m just glad there was some instead of purely doubling down.
People all start somewhere, and unpacking the harmful norms and beliefs you have internalized takes a long time
I’m proud of him for his baby steps, and I hope that he will continue to unpack and process more :)
Every trans coming out story is a cis erasure and that’s just great.
Wow cant imagine how it feels to watch a work that doesnt include any ppl from ur demographic /s
I think I get it. They’ve watched the show for years and felt part of the fandom and then suddenly the only character they can personally relate to turns out to be something they can’t relate to. Kinger isn’t relateable to a 16 year old kid.
I understand feeling like that. It’s just not a story written for a 16 year old straight cis boy, but with a time period of literal years for the product to be created and released you’d pick up a lot of those people until the reveal at the end and then they feel suddenly spurned.
This is different to if a show is released over a season of 8-12 weeks and then disappears forever. There’s a different investment. These straight boys that became emotionally invested in Jax over the period of years that the animation was releasing for (along with fan art community etc) suddenly find themselves unable to relate at the very very end of it and feel a bit lost because of that. Not necessarily because they’ve got anything against trans people, but because something they invested themselves in for a long time suddenly becomes unrelateable at the end.
It’s a problem not with the show or with the straight cis kid posting this imo. It’s a problem with the very long development and release process that creates a fandom on social media like this where people are investing themselves in it for multiple years.
I think he uses some shitty wording in some of this but I’m not going to cyber bully a kid for not having great phrasing.
Time to put a copy of The Catcher in the Rye on this kid’s desk so he can finally have a story about a straight cis teen boy wearing a mask of cruel cynicism and emotionally distant toxic masculinity, and see what happens!
Yeah you’re not wrong there either but it’s a kid, I believe most of them change. I think some straight cis kid hanging out in queer fandoms at 16 learning what he’s learning has a better chance of turning out ok compared to the ones that aren’t.
Oh, absolutely, there’s no question about that.
It’s a problem not with the show or with the straight cis kid posting this imo. It’s a problem with the very long development and release process that creates a fandom on social media like this where people are investing themselves in it for multiple years.
Millennials who browsed Newgrounds way back in the day learned this. You wait until the entire series (or season) gets released before you watch it all at once. A lot of those series either never get finished or botch the ending or just have a massive tonal shift. The zoomer OP is learning this the hard way.
I think you make some great points, but I also agree with some of the commenters in the thread in that you don’t really need to 100% identify with a character to identify with certain aspects of their character. I think finding ways to identify with people and characters not like you is important for developing empathy and really learning about other people.
Also, yeah, after reading through the actual thread I don’t want to be too hard on him. It sounds like he really did learn at least some things from the discussion which is positive.
I also agree with some of the commenters in the thread in that you don’t really need to 100% identify with a character to identify with certain aspects of their character
Yeah I agree too.
The thing is that this kid is looking for the self-insert and there isn’t one for him. The self-insert he was looking for turned out to be a trans person.
He’s probably better off with Shonen anime.
Everyone’s fighting about Jax, am I the only one who thought Caine’s arc was badly truncated? His whole problem was that he loved the humans as an audience not as people. Having God like power over the circus, he had no need to ever listen to someone else or treat them as an equal. I thought it fell flat that he was able to resolve that just by talking it through to himself. They hinted at the blue AI throughout the show and I was hoping that it would force Caine to confront someone as an equal for the first time but instead it shows up after the character growth and literally just putters off into the sunset. It needed another 20 minutes.
Caine’s arc definitely could have used more time to develop. What we got was a tad confusing and not fully justified
Good ending: Wonder why this “man” identifies with boymoder 3000 so much?
Normal ending: toxic men seek out representations of token masculinity to reaffirm their own behaviors.
He felt connection to the character that wears toxic masculinity as a mask to hide her identity and feelings behind so she can stay sane and function the way the world expects her to. It’s not an experience unique to trans people, but I hope he really does try to unpack what relating to Jax means for him. It sounds like he has some shitty homophobic friends, I’m sure he feels the pressure to perform toxic masculinity to fit in. Even if he is just a cis guy, I can see how that would make him relate to Jax and I hope he finds a better circle to roll with.
He says that as if it’s a bad thing.
I don’t know or care about this character but this digital circus shit seems like the most gen a bullshit since the skibidi rizzler
I tried watching the first episode of TADC years ago, and I’m pretty sure I stopped watching after like the first few minutes because it seemed like, as you say, “Gen Alpha bullshit” — I rejected it for the style before I could even taste the substance, like the voice acting and writing and “ooOOooOOoooh early 90s CGI, so spooky!” stuff just gave me a headache. But a lot of TADC fans in my experience are honest to God millennials if not older, and the story is notably inspired by “I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream”, so maybe if I can just get over myself for a moment I’ll be able to appreciate it. Who knows. Not everything is for everybody, anyways.
My own preference for independent animation is like this:
- Sparkle on Raven: The Life of DrillGirl is awesome, as are most of the works in the “fanime” scene that inspired it.
- Pretty Pretty Please I Don’t Want To Be A Magical Girl also fucks, and I look forward to seeing the fully animated version of episode 1.
- Hazbin Hotel is… tolerable? mostly? Carcharodonna is actually doing a watch party for it right now, but the sex and violence and “oooOOooOOOoh cartoon said a swearie” purely for the sake of it just didn’t appeal to me, so I ended up dropping out by the end of season 1.
- The Amazing Digital Circus is… well, I already told you how I feel about it, but I haven’t really seen enough to judge it accurately.
We can call this the “Paint-Funko spectrum”, in any case. I.e. independent animation that leans more into looking “unpolished and amateurish” (fanime like SOR, animatics like PPP) versus independent animation that leans more into looking “professional and marketable” (Hazbin, TADC). The spectrum is so named because the former end consists of 11 year olds on YouTube in 2009 making cartoons in MS Paint and Movie Maker, while the latter end consists of shows you can find cheap plastic toys of at Walmart. I guess my point is that there’s sort of an “uncanny valley” effect that makes certain works of independent animation seem like Gen Alpha bullshit: the Gen Alpha bullshit cartoons try to look like actual big-budget, big-studio TV cartoons, and they have the resources and experience to get most of the way there; but they fall just short, and the discrepancy between what they are and what they’re trying to be is what ends up giving you a headache.
But a lot of TADC fans in my experience are honest to God millennials if not older, and the story is notably inspired by “I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream”, so maybe if I can just get over myself for a moment I’ll be able to appreciate it.
Honestly I’m surprised people younger than me (mid 30s) like it. The animation constantly references old loony toons (Tex Avery) cartoons (which had a revival in the 90s). The second episode is entirely a Mad Max Fury Road parody (obviously the millenial’s favorite Mad Max movie). The overall plot explores cartesian skepticism/dualism, much like the Matrix (and I Have No Mouth…). And of course the cgi reminds me of the cgi I saw as a kid (albeit with more pixels)
This was my impression skimming through some of the episodes and watching a bunch of video essays. It’s very millennial-coded. Apparently, a lot of people in the production had their start in Newgrounds which is probably where the millennial-codedness is coming from.
I haven’t watched the series in its entirety though. I don’t know if the target audience is millennials with a gen alpha/zoomer fanbase that organically tagged along or if the target audience is gen alpha/zoomers with the millennialness being more about the generation the artists came from.
It’s very much the former, though Gooseworx herself is sorta in the fuzzy ‘Zenninial’ zone between the youngest millennials and oldest Gen Z.
Zoomers were probably part of the intended audience, but from what I’ve gathered the massive popularity among Gen Alpha was a complete accident that kinda blindsided everyone working on the show. On a personal level Gooseworx actually seems to kinda fucking hate that things played out that way, actually, though I’m sure all the money she’s gotten out of that happenstance is a cushy silver lining.
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if your media taste is still at that level, reads as really deep and interesting,
oh, fuck off
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My comment proved too challenging for you to read, apparently.
When you get older, maybe you’ll learn to appreciate sincerity again. Until then, fuck all the way off, lib
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The person you’re replying to said they were in their mid 30s in the comment you replied to, so perhaps he hwa beareþ þe Aqua Teen Hunger Force profile Picture sholde not be þrowynge Stanes in his owne glass Hus when it comes to media literacy. I see you walked back your “adult baby” comment with that edit, too.
Like Aqua Teen Hunger Force?
Okay: you’re wrong.
To elaborate: 30 years ago, people like you were saying that you can get too old for anime or video games.
It’s fine to enjoy things, but if you only ever read YA novels then you won’t be maturing as a reader.
I started watching it because my daughter and her most sparkly of friends were all into it. I was looking for a way to take my old school media metaphors and pin them to something new for her sake.
It was a nice shiny little hypersigil for a while there. Lots of cool little life lessons packed into a weird container.
I felt like something off started creeping in around episode six. My daughter noticed it too. The shift between episodes 8 and 9 lost her interest. It had nothing to do with any of the character identities, and everything to do with the feedback loop taking place between the creator and the fandom. Wherever the story was going, the author’s aim got jiggled enough that everyone in my daughter’s social circle agrees it missed the mark, even if all their opinions differ as to why.
We used to call this sort of turning point “jumping the shark”.
Then again, for as much as I didn’t like the ending of Seinfeld when it aired, I absolutely love it now. I wonder how TADC will age.
We used to call this sort of turning point “jumping the shark”.
It’s slightly different with heavily online media with a very active fandom, “jumping the shark” is usually a sign a show has run out of realistic and interesting ideas and feels a need to “up the ante” to keep viewer attention.
Though a lot of shows nowadays have a very active online community which the creators interact with frequently, and these interactions colour the creator’s opinions on where the show will go. It’s more like…pandering to the audience rather than jumping the shark, but it isn’t really either. I’m not sure if there is a term for this, but it happens so frequently that it probably deserves a proper name and more investigation. This is how media creation works now, and so many promising ideas fell into this trap of “giving the fans exactly what they want” without considering if that is what the fans actually “need” from the show.
Gooseworx mentioned that Jax became a deuteragonist around then, and it shows. I do think he’s an interesting character worth exploring, but I really wish Zooble got some more time. I guess they were the most well-adjusted character from the gate that couldn’t drop lore like Kinger could
Making Jax a deuteragonist was some sort of fan fic crime for sure. If you lift “Max” from “Sam & Max” and insert the character whole cloth into your own story…
That character has to remain scenery. It’s unfair to the source material to elevate such unapologetic thievery to deuteragonist.
But a lot of TADC fans in my experience are honest to God millennials if not older, and the story is notably inspired by “I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream”, so maybe if I can just get over myself for a moment I’ll be able to appreciate it.
I’m more than likely gonna show it after Hazbin finishes if you’re interested. I have no idea what to expect but have heard good things from friends.
Bangers, I’ll join — how long is that until?
6 more episodes, so 6 more weeks unless people want to speed things up by doubling up on the Hazbin. I can ask at the next one. But even if not that’s not too far away I suppose.
I felt the same way after episode 1 and dropped it for the same reason, but got enough recs to push on that I gave it anither shot and I’m glad I did.
The first episode leaves a poor impression imo
The first episode leaves a poor impression imo
Many such cases, hahah! I have been thinking of giving it another shot, but who knows when.
Cant guarantee it’ll do anything for you but it’s more than just the edgy-millenial-watch-the woobie-suffer show that I thought it was
Newgrounds is where this style of animation comes from.
What, the Hazbin Hotel / TADC / “Gen Alpha bullshit” style? I know that a lot of the people involved in these projects have ties to that site, but what do you mean exactly when you say that the style “comes from” Newgrounds? You mean stuff like the writing and voice acting as well as the visuals are all thoroughly a product of Newgrounds culture, and that that fact is the true common denominator that sets Hazbin and TADC apart from the independent animation I do like?
I’m not sure how to articulate this properly, as i’m not a person who watches indy animations, but yeah, I find that theres this underground culture that is (not purely) that has its origins in the Newgrounds late 00s milieu. VA’s, animators, storyboardists, etc.
Im X-ennial and I felt the same until I watched it. It’s prettt good, actually, but stay far away from the fandom
Some friends and I watched it after seeing that the finale was screening in theaters, and decided to see what all the fuss was about.
I liked it! Some strong thematic story telling, in a kinda wacky package. Nothing that makes me want to go out of my way to dive into the fandom, but thoroughly enjoyable on its own.
I’d care for the trans Jax thing more if she wasn’t voiced by a racist and have her girlness celebrated by erasing the blackness from a song about celebrating the birth of a black baby girl and covering it by a racist pedophile.
what does this mean, google isn’t helping me
IDK anything about the voice actor, but they’re talking about the Stevie Wonder song in the finale. And IDK who covered it. But it did seem extremely out of place since the rest of the series has original music.
Are you talking about the giggling over nega thing?
Receipts or gtfo
Sure. The cover from the last episode was done by JobbyTheHong. Here (yeah I know I know Reddit is gross) is him being best buds with and defending notorious lolicon “artist” Shadman who in the past has drawn material of real life minors, along with drawing lolicon himself, making videos about lolibait anime figurines with more cropped lolicon in the thumbnail, and being best buds with and making a podcast with “anti-SJW” right wing grifter ItsAGundam.
The show ended by erasing the blackness from a song about celebrating the birth of a black baby girl and covering it by a racist pedophile.
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I don’t think drawing porn of anime schoolgirls is conclusive evidence of being a pedophile
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Damn, what a way to learn TADC has awfulness I hadn’t fathomed.
You didn’t learn anything, you read an unsubstantiated claim
Rule of life: the bigger the budget, the bigger the dark side. But also, unless you’ve investigated the claim you shouldn’t take it at face value.
Edit: Oh. Damn it.
I still need to finish the finale and I feel like I just got spoiled lol
Nooooooo I thought the hints were obvious and ongoing throughout the series. should I NSFW the post and put a spoiler warning?
If its not really crucial to the plot or explicitly said in the text, then I’m cool.
I wasn’t planning to ever watch the show but I’m still mad at you for spoiling it
It’s not realy a spoiler because it’s barely even hinted at in the text and not even crucially relevant to the plot.
too late. I’m already mad
I don’t think it’s really a spoiler though, but maybe someone who’s actually watched the whole thing can tell me otherwise
I would assert that it is, personally, but I would also assert that the entire show revolves around Jax and her issues, and would barely have a plot at all if you stripped her out of it.
Which doesn’t seem to be the majority opinion, something I’ve found kind of incomprensible.
that’s what i’m sayin!!! Jax is basically the main character from episode 5 onward
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😔
