- cross-posted to:
- stallmanwasright@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- stallmanwasright@programming.dev
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I never owned a car but if and when I do my FIRST choice is ‘was this car made with telemetry? If yes, are there clear instructions on how to airgap it’
Also I would want to check the laws regarding the paint on the cars so if it is possible to give it a dazzle or AI confusing pattern. I cannot shield it from ALPRs, but I want as little visiblility against other cameras as possible… Of course doing that pattern makes the car stick out.
I pulled the cloud modem out of my car. It drives just fine without a connection to the internet or cell towers.
My '96 vehicle has no cloud and will continue to.outlive many modern ones.
Ive got over 350k on my 05’ Toyota. I dread trying to buy a newer car.
I have yet to own a vehicle made in the 21st century.
I’m terrified of having to get a vehicle that requires software updates that eventually will stop receiving support. I’m also terrified of getting a vehicle with just generally shitty software. My gf’s car has awful software and there’s nothing she can do about it.
Just give me 90s era cars again. They last forever and they’re easy to repair on your own.
I wonder how much cheaper a car without any crap in it could be today if they still manufactured them at scale
I know I may get flamed for this since it has funding from Bezos but take a look at the Slate Truck (https://www.slate.auto/). Not cellular modem so no tracking (other than app based things. They say like charging and whatnot but you never know). No carplay or android auto, not entertainment dash at all. Hell the windows are old school cranks for rolling up and down.
There’s lot to be said for physical safety features like side and curtain airbags, or better crumple zones that don’t crush your feet, but those were pretty much standard by 2012 so you can have those without all the computer nightmares.
You can get cars as late as 2016 for this
You just throw it out and buy a new one. Duh.
This is what the GPL was meant to fight against. Having boxes running software that is still under the control of the manufacturer.
Instead people complained that it was hard to use the code at work. YES. THAT’S THE POINT.
Sure but that’s also the reason stuff like this isn’t GPL. For-profit software simply isn’t going to use the give-away-for-free license.
You know it might make sense for automotive. The car is the product after all. The quality of the engine is ultimately what drives sales and most of the entertainment is traditionally third party. Making the on board stuff open helps them make a platform for third parties that are safe from manufacturer trying to push them out or collect fees. That environment also helps the manufacturer in its own sales as their cars are where the cultural impact is.
Sharing code makes sense for everybody. It lets them spend a lot less resources on fixing shit if everyone else is also doing that somewhere upstream. With FOSS you can have your cake and eat it too. At some point Google calculated that committing one developer upstream for the Linux kernel can save a company the equivalent of a couple dozen specialist developers downstream in bug prevention and feature alignment across vendors alone.
Unfortunately many companies continue to think about code as if it were potatoes. It doesn’t fucking matter who owns the code, it’s a functional spec. But hey, look at all the trouble we have explaining why standards are good – nevermind opening code.
It makes sense for everybody, except for those with a financial interest in selling and/or haggling over software licenses. That’s not only the companies producing the actual software, but also legal firms and similar “specialists” who siphon off money from this system of complex IP law.
IMO the only way to transition to more software being open sourced, is to deconstruct these vested intrests with regulation. We need to fundamentally restructure the way software development is funded, and transition away from a model where ownership is the only thing that’s profitable.
Doing that is delicate though, because as backlash from those vested interests, a lot of workers will likely lose their jobs. You need to make sure those people easily find new jobs working on open source, and communicate that effectively, so workers’ job insecurity is as low as possible during the transition.
Ohh for sure. That is also my position. I was just pointing out that people do not pick a car for the entertainment, but it can sway a purchase. An auto maker that keeps an open platform might have a stronger third party market that helps sway people into their cars, so even in their “we are trying to maximize our profits” still have a reasoning for it. Of course good luck telling senior management.
The cloud? I’ve owned many a vehicle who’s company doesn’t exist anymore XD No car should be tied to any cloud or connectivity crap for use
Saturn enters the chat.
Pontiac says “hello” and Oldsmobile is hitting on Saab.
We must create some legalisation on this else a buch of smart cars are going to turn into dumb bricks.
In contrary to what many are saying I don’t think going back to plain cars is the solution. I think an open standard would be the solution here to provide an option to self-host or connect to provider.
Doesn’t even need a technical solution. Could just be some law that in order to sell a vehicle:
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A company has to maintain any cloud support for at least 20 years.
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They have to put up a bond that will allow such services to continue even if they go belly up before those 20 years are through.
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All vehicle features where cloud connections are not essential to their function must be operable without any cloud connection. So it’s fine if after 20 years you can’t pull the contacts from your google account to display on the car’s screen, or if GPS map updates no longer work. But the door locks or seat heaters better not be cloud connected.
Enforcing 20 years of support would be difficult since they’d presumably be going bankrupt/closing anyway so they don’t really have anything to lose.
Big automotive conglomerates won’t go bankrupt.
If they do, your tax money will bail them out.Bond.
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vehicle … cloud
Flying cars sure turned out differently than we imagined in sci-fi.
In a sane world, there would be a law that forces certain types of features to always work.
Cloud connectivity can have benefits but honestly, 95+% of a car’s feature does not need the internet
We need a Stop Killing Cars movement
A lot of people don’t realise SKG is a foothold in exactly that fight. If you establish precedent on something as “frivolous” as video games you can use it on much higher value thing too.
I still don’t understand why people call the biggest entrataiment industry “frivolous” especially when some stories are better than many films i saw
In this case it’s an advantage. If your enemy has a blind spot you exploit it.
It’s a disadvantage here though, it means less people supporting it and politicians ignoring it more
Just part of a long trend of devaluing all artistic pursuits.
I counter: !fuckcars@lemmy.world
Most cars throughout history have had zero need for the internet. I just hope it does not end up like video games, where they can sell an unfinished product and patch it later. Though there are benefits to that model, but recalls exist for a reason.
I just hope it does not end up like video games, where they can sell an unfinished product and patch it later.
Too late. This is already the case, I don’t know of a single EV that wasn’t buggy on release and still buggy a year or two afterwards as the manufacturer hunts bugs in a leisurely pace. It already is like in the gaming industry. Don’t buy an EV that isn’t at least one year old on the market or you will become their free of charge beta tester…
Anacdotaly I suspect most car software bugs aren’t hunted or patched at all, unless an exec at the company happens to run into the bug in their personal vehicle and flags it for the development team to fix.
I’ve heard too many stories of car software issues where the dealer gives it back with a note “reset the battery and tested good” but the bug is still easily reproduced.
I just hope it does not end up like video games, where they can sell an unfinished product and patch it later
Tesla has been selling a “full self driving” subscription for years.
And if Musk hadn’t bought a president, they would have been prosecuted for their crimes.
deleted by creator
You buy a new one so the c level can buy another yacht
My car is so old it makes its own cloud!
Time to switch to an EV
True. But actually I don’t have a car. My last car decades ago, had a cassette player. But that had Auto Reverse. When it reached the end of the tape it would play the other side without you having to eject the tape and turn it over!
Time to switch to a CD
F that noise. 8 track for the win!
String quartet squeezed in the back seat or GTFO.
Look at the queen of England over here with a car quartet! We just had a couple hillbillys with banjos in the rumble seat of our jalopy AND WE WERE THANKFUL.
Luxury! We had a kazoo strapped to a unicycle and we were glad of it! All 15 of us!
Is this article presuming that this isn’t part of the plan? Auto manufacturers think our brains work like “oh no, my connected service was end-of-lifed. Guess I gotta buy a new car.”
People already have been brainwashed on “how many years of security updates does this smartphone model have?”, and being paranoid about older-than-a-few-years devices, so you’re not far off.
(Not trying to diminish the necessity of software security updates, but at the same time I could not find any Android exploits that do not involve users installing malicious apps, supply chain attacks, or state actors)
My phone has access to my bank app, my car does not.
… yet.
With OTA updates eventually they could FORCE you into buying a new one.
I hate the privacy nightmare cars are turning into.
Or it’s just incompetence, short sighted planning to please the shareholders
In response to some customer concerns of a dead battery resulting from the DCM continually trying to access the 3G cellular network, which is no longer available
https://www.theautopian.com/why-subaru-batteries-are-dying-all-across-the-country/
So you’d also get screwed if you routinely are parked somewhere without any cellular access? Nice design.
Just picture it - You drive your Subaru, the off-road adventure car company, to a camp site in a remote area. You wake up after a few days of hiking and camping to return to your car.
The battery is dead. If you camp too close to the car, the key fob being close to the car will leave it in a “standby” mode which drains the battery on top of the car pinging the server for updates.
Yup, lost a battery to that (2019 Impreza). Pulled the fuse for the modem, and it’s been fine ever since. I never used (or wanted) any of those features anyway.
WOW… we were trying to hunt down why my buddy’s forestor’s battery kept dying…
We even disconnected the wire that tells the alternator to stop charging the battery…
Affected Forester
2016-2018 Forester 2.5i Premium 2016-2018 Forester 2.5i Limited 2016-2018 Forester 2.5i Touring 2016-2018 Forester 2.0XT Premium 2016-2018 Forester 2.0XT Touring
Wtf that’s so recent
Yep. My toddler hit the starlink button recently. Absolutely killed my outback.
Crazy the bull shit I had to do to start it again.
