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Star Trek fans have held the national stereotype of being way too rabid about things for decades but they’re probably the nicest fan base in all of science fiction and the one least likely to have a large faction of them absolutely lose it over a torpedo being fired by a woman or dumb shit like that

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  • Bappity@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    anyone that tries to say star trek has “gone woke” or some stupid shit like that clearly isn’t a fan of it and just trying to rile up stuff. I mean come on… how can someone say that and have watched the shows LOL

    • pleasejustdie@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      Yeah, its not like Star Trek suddenly went woke, its been woke. First ever TV kiss between mixed races was between Kirk and Uhura. Scandalous.

      • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de
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        6 months ago

        And they’re not even that woke. Afaik they still ocasionally eat animals in the 24th century. (Unless they’re Vulcan.) Watch The Orville if you want some proper progressive shit 😆

        • BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee
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          6 months ago

          They have food replicators. The only thing not vegan about replicated meat is that they’d probably use your poop as bulk material to synthesize stuff

          • tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip
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            6 months ago

            Pretty ure I saw Riker cooking with eggs at some point. And who knows what neelix gets up to in the galley

              • ameancow@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                poop meat.

                Knowing how chemicals and carbon compounds are recycled in Earth’s ecosystem and taking into account factory farming, I would wager the line between poop to serving of hot steak is much a much less connected line on a ship that turns matter into its constituent energy patterns.

                Meanwhile on Earth we routinely have meat recalls because of e-coli contamination. Which is poop. As well as what we use to fertilize our root vegetables. Everyone is eating poop to some degree, it just becomes a problem when enough of it is in one spot to become contamination.

                • tootoughtoremember@lemmy.world
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                  6 months ago

                  The replicators are also used to “recycle”, converting matter into energy, to be used for future replication.

                  I doubt they were hauling poop through space rather than converting it to poop energy for their next earl grey.

            • BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee
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              6 months ago

              True! Forgot about that. I think voyager had a few episodes with hunted game of some sort. The Klingons in general too. Guess actually trek isn’t super big on veganism haha

          • rufus@discuss.tchncs.de
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            6 months ago

            Yeah they have. But don’t they go on to tell in several episodes of all of the shows, how someones mom makes/made the best X/Y out of real ingredients and how much better that tastes than replicated food? And they eat on some planets with other people or on vacation… ?! Or someone worked in a restaurant?

          • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
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            6 months ago

            I don’t think the Star Trek replicator use raw materials to produce stuff. I’m pretty sure it’s just energy converted into matter.

        • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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          6 months ago

          Watch The Orville if you want some proper progressive shit 😆

          You mean like “agree to date me or else I’ll date the younger clone of you?”

          • usernamefactory@lemmy.ca
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            6 months ago

            No, no, more like “I’m going to fly a shuttle outside your quarters so I can spy on you during your date”

          • Taleya@aussie.zone
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            6 months ago

            You didn’t actually watch that ep, didja? Several tells there lol

            (Honestly if you wanted fucking problematic Gordon was right there)

          • Crashumbc@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            Specifically why I said black/white. and peck on the cheek isn’t consider a “kiss” by most people. (although it probably caused a stir). This was also right in the middle of the black civil rights movement which made it that much more risky.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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              6 months ago

              Okay then, you’ll have to go with Sammy again and Nancy Sinatra:

              That would have been in 1967. Plato’s Stepchildren was a year later.

              On top of that, you have to further specify that this is only on American TV, because Gordon Heath kissed Rosemary Harris in a production of Othello on the BBC in 1955.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                  6 months ago

                  Do you think insulting a mod will go well for you? And congratulations for proving the above meme incorrect about Star Trek being the nicest fan base.

                  Showing you that a passionate kiss between a white woman and a black woman happened on British television over a decade before Star Trek is not being pedantic. You were just wrong.

          • Norah - She/They@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            6 months ago

            And of course it shall always be the first kiss between a black woman and a white man in space on tv.

            I cracked up a bit at this. That was a great write up, I didn’t know before about Desilu’s involvement in making that kiss happen and their earlier milestone, that’s quite cool.

    • bi_tux@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      I mean compared to TOS it’s gotten woke, but TOS was like extremely woke for the 60s

    • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      Right now it’s the modern entitled version of woke. Not the philosophical exploratory woke.

      Modern Trek tells you off for thinking differently while old Trek set an example to aspire to.

      And that’s only in the few limited moments NuTrek a actually bothers spending time on making an opinion, as most of it is cheaply written shlock to squeeze as much as possible out of underpaid VFX artists.

      • usernamefactory@lemmy.ca
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        6 months ago

        Releasing Let That Be Your Last Battlefield at the height of the civil rights movement wasn’t some hypothetical philosophizing. That was pointed condemnation. Same with The Outcast’s attack on conversion therapy, or In The Hands of the Prophets’ take on religious dogmatism.

        Star Trek has always been happy to condemn bad ideas. If you think it’s just started telling people off now then you haven’t been paying attention.

        • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          It was 100% philosophy, and leading by example, exactly as I said. It spent the entire episode showing the hypocrisy of the two characters and showed the crew of The Enterprise to be better than their millenia old squabble.

          It wasn’t 30 seconds of emotional finger pointing in between cheap action sci-fi.

          I’ve been paying perfect attention to Star Trek. But it seems like loads of people have simply forgotten how Star Trek got their point across.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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      6 months ago

      And yet it still happens. There are right-wing bigots who watch Star Trek for the pew pew space battles and ignore the rest, sad as that may be.

      • RamblingPanda@lemmynsfw.com
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        6 months ago

        They are not Trek fans, they are violence fans. They are not welcome.

        I love Star Trek for the vision, the tech, the people and of course to hate Wesley. This is my utopia.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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          6 months ago

          The funny thing is, unlike with most sci-fi, Starfleet usually only starts shooting as a last resort. They don’t even notice that.

          • Hugin@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            The number of times in trek where they could easily destroy the ship or entity that was causing the problem in the episode is huge in Trek. But they spend most of the episode trying to figure out how solve the problem with the minimum damage to both sides.

          • RamblingPanda@lemmynsfw.com
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            6 months ago

            They don’t understand that shooting should be the last resort for police/countries as well. They’re just enjoying it.

            • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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              6 months ago

              Talking it out instead of shooting first and asking questions later is one of the things I admire most about Star Trek. It was sold as essentially a space Western, but unlike your standard Western, it says that violence is not the answer, talking and understanding each other is the answer.

              And really, the only Westerns I truly enjoy are the same way. My favorite is The Gunfighter with Gregory Peck. He’s an aging “fastest gun in the west” who just wants to be reconciled with his wife and child, retire and live a quiet life. But he keeps getting challenged. Spoiler for a movie made in 1950: There’s only one gun fired in the entire film, shot at the titular Gunfighter by a young hotshot. As Peck’s character lays dying, he lets the hotshot know that the curse of a life of violence has been passed on and he’s about to have as dismal a life as the man he killed.

              The same sort of moral lesson Star Trek teaches.

              But they want John Wayne coming in blazing, shooting at those inhuman savages (they don’t have to worry about being called racist if they hate Cardassians).

          • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            I also love how they have different types of leaders.

            Kirk is the Captain you’d love to have as a boss. He gets stuff done, but also has fun with it. He’d inspire loyalty through Charisma.

            He’s the captain you want standing by your side in a bar fight.

            Picard is the perfectly-distantly, dignified leader. He’s a diplomat and archaeologist who loves exploring not only space, but culture and the nature of life. His love for his crew is shown through his desire to develop them into better officers.

            He was the captain who kept you from getting into a fight.

            Sisko is the most militaristic of the Captains. We first meet him in a battle, and he doesn’t back down from many fights. When Picard was annoyed by Q he complained. When Sisko met Q he punched him. But Sisko was a great tactician who also had to be a diplomat in charge of a station inhabited mostly by people outside his command structure.

            He was the captain who punch someone in the throat if he thought there would be a fight.

            Janeway was a scientist and diplomat. She could be hard as iron, but she was absolutely devoted to her people and would do anything for them. Her loyalty would cause her to occasionally cross the line, however. More than any of the captains, she wanted to develop her crew into leaders. They had limited options for advancement, but she tried to give them all opportunities to grow. She also didn’t see any sense in playing fair if she was in the right.

            She was the captain that would bring a gun to a knife fight.

            • CrazyLikeGollum@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              The funny thing is that, contrary to how they act in their roles as Captain, Kirk was a studious nerd and a bit of teacher’s pet at the academy while Picard was a hard-partying drunk who not only participated in, but started bar fights.

              Kirk would do his best to defend you in a bar fight and then would punish you after the fact, according to Star Fleet rules.

              Picard would try to stop the bar fight from happening to begin with, would break it up if it escalated, but probably wouldn’t defend you specifically unless you had a good reason for being in the fight. He would only punish you if you were in the wrong and then it would probably be something more creative, more immediately punishing, and less impactful (career-wise), then Star Fleet’s regulations prescribe.

              • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Picard got stabbed in the heart in one of those academy bar fights. Might have cooled his jets a bit.

                Also, “a bit of a teacher’s pet‽‽‽” Kirk was so much of a golden boy teacher’s pet, he cheated on the Kobiashi Maru test by hacking the holodeck, and forcing a “win condition,” and the instructors allowed it to stand.

        • BlueFootedPetey@sh.itjust.works
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          6 months ago

          OK I love to laugh at Wesley, don’t get me wrong, but why the hate? I am a dirty casual it’s true. But next Gen is the one I know best, he wasn’t that bad was he?

          • aeronmelon@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            Because Wesley Crusher was written to be seen as an annoying kid who got in the way. That was the social slant of the time. But you watch those episodes now and you realize, “Hey, he was actually very smart, just trying to help, and he even saved the ship a couple of times.” So all the “Shut up, Wesley!” moments became so stupid, even if he did deserved it sometimes, that the community decided to lean into it ironically as an in-joke.

            • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              Thank the IRL scriptwriters that they didn’t make Wil Wheaton into the typical “child actor” personality, and left him a good guy.

      • Ziglin@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Then perhaps the qualification to be a Trekkie should be watching the original series. We’ll loose the VFX loving pew pew people.

      • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Ah… I see some of them must’ve made it to the writing room on NuTrek… Because it’s pretty much nothing more than a VFX showcase these days.

        I miss the time when an entire episode was essentially the crew figuring out a moral dillema, or just some really weird space bullshit.

  • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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    6 months ago

    I have a theory:

    Star Trek fans were some of the earlier cosplayers. Trekkies were wearing Starfleet uniforms and Vulcan ears to conventions decades before the word “cosplay” was a thing. My father has a book called the Starfleet Technical Manual published in the 70’s that is basically an official guide for fans to build screen accurate costumes and props from, including sewing patterns for the various tunics and wrist-length dresses and a page of color swatches, plus dimensional drawings of tricorders, phasers and communicators.

    And the public at large in the 1970s wasn’t ready for that yet.

      • Jojo, Lady of the West@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        6 months ago

        Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn the ancient Greeks were cosplaying their favorite characters from the Trojan war or something. But the word cosplay is only attested from like 1993 in English and 1983 or so in Japan

    • Infynis@midwest.social
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      I have that book! It’s super cool. It’s themed as a document made by the military about information on the Federation that leaked into the past.

      There’s also diagrams of space stations and ships, and small things, like how to properly decorate sleeves and badges for rank and division.

  • Taleya@aussie.zone
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    6 months ago

    Hands up those old enough to remember the shitfest that erupted over Janeway (and/or Sisko)

    • flicker@lemmy.world
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      I threw up the horns. It was nuts as a middle school girl, when Voyager first started airing, and everyone was so angry about Janeway and when I’d ask why they would turn red and shake their head, or change the topic.

      • Crashumbc@lemmy.world
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        The good old days, when sexist, racist, homophobes at least kept their mouths shut… Now they’d give you a speech about how she should be in the galley :(

    • grrgyle@slrpnk.net
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      It’s true. It’s not been a totally smooth ride. It’s taken work to educate fellow fans, and making the intolerant unwelcome.

      Like there was early “controversy” about Geordie getting to be on the bridge. Which seemed kind of logical, but if you scratched below the surface you’d see how selective that critique was. That it was just racism and ableism

    • samus12345@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      I remember a comment saying that Tuvok was so anal his skin is brown on Usenet in 1995. Some things never change.

      • Numberone@startrek.website
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        6 months ago

        Head cannon is that 1/3 of voyager is taken up by a massive shuttle manufactory. It’s never discussed but it must be there…Otherwise, none of this shit makes any sense.😬

        • Lydia_K@startrek.website
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          The lower decks should have done a joke about the three ensigns on Voyager who did nothing except build shuttles the entire seven years.

        • Cagi@lemmy.ca
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          They could do it in the shuttle bay, they wouldn’t need much more space than a finished shuttle takes up. We know they have shipboard replimats for larger things, I figure replicating and building standard shuttle models on long voyages has standardized procedures and steps like Lego instructions. You only need to replicate one piece at a time saving on space. Gotta replace your shuttles somehow on those 5 years missions and the nearest Starbase is months away.

          • Infynis@midwest.social
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            Yeah, if designing and building the Delta Flyer only took one episode, I think it’s pretty safe to assume that making more shuttles is easy and boring, and that’s why we don’t see it. Voyager was cutting edge when she was lost too

      • Fades@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        I was always sad they never explored that sort of thing in an episode, didn’t have to be as big as the Delta Flyer but still!

  • Semi-Hemi-Lemmygod@lemmy.world
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    The Discworld fandom is another one you can’t be in if you’re an asshole because you clearly didn’t understand the source material.

    • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
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      Say that again and I’ll tuvix the shit out of you!!

      (Then there will be two of you, but better, Im showing you mercy)

  • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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    Also, sorry everyone, I was a Trekkie first and I will always come back to Star Trek, but the MST3K fan base is the nicest fan base. The only two bitter arguments I’ve ever seen the community devolve into was Joel vs. Mike (now very moot) and “I hate Crow’s new lady voice” for the most recent season. Other than that, everyone is super nice to a fault. The MST3K forums is the friendliest forum I have ever been on.

    • djsoren19@yiffit.net
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      Maybe the recent controversy from Warhammer 40k where Games Workshop retconned women space marines into existence? I dunno, did Star Wars do something to trigger the sexists since then, that controversy is a few weeks old now.

      • JJROKCZ@lemmy.world
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        Female adeptes custodes not Space marines. Makes little difference in the large picture but it’s possible within the lore to have female custodians as they’re all humans picked at birth and genetically altered/enhanced individually to make the best soldier they could ever be. GW just didn’t mention females being in that order for 30 years apparently lol

        Space marines are all male though, have been explicitly stated as being all male repeatedly and even recently with lore backing of the some of the organ implants and genetic modification templates only work on males since they’re based off the primarchs who were all male as sons of the emperor of mankind.

        I’ll end with saying that GW has done great with inclusion in recent years, even explicitly telling Nazis to go find another hobby if they don’t like that GW is making warhammer and warhammer 40k for everyone, of all races, genders, and religions. They’ve always had racial representation and some manner of gender representation in the guard and eldar but now they’re expanding and I’m all for it. I have no issues with any of it so long as GW doesn’t just say ignore the last ~40 years of established lore and even recent lore issuances because we would like to sell more models.

    • Optional@lemmy.world
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      I took it as a (mistaken) reference to the scene in The Last Jedi when Vice Admiral Holdo (Laura Dern) rams into a star destroyer in hyperspace, a maneuver which destroyed both ships and made people wonder why they didn’t just hyperspace into shit all the time instead of building warships and getting shot all the time.

      It happened in the same point in the movie when she refuses multiple times to say that she has any plan whatsoever, leading to a lot of pointless fighting and was thought to have been some sort of commentary on “believing women” but very poorly executed.

      Disney spent billions to destroy the Star Wars canon, but hopefully Trek can escape such a grisly fate.

      • Kushan@lemmy.world
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        In fairness, that scene with the destroyers was fucking awesome. Fuck the canon, it looked cool as fuck.

    • Crashumbc@lemmy.world
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      Because the first series didn’t age well :( although I loved it at 10… And the second was (controversial opinion incoming) too much of a soap opera for me.

      • VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        The writers and showrunners blatantly not having a clue where the plot was going was a bigger problem for me than the soapiness.

        • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world
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          It’s weird how the show just vanished. Even without all the sequels and prequels Star Wars would still have been endlessly referenced for decades after the 2nd movie. BSG is the cultural equivalent of a night of heavy drinking.

          I remember binge watching it. I remember talking to people about it but nothing this past decade

          • VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world
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            Even without all the sequels and prequels Star Wars would still have been endlessly referenced for decades after the 2nd movie.

            Not necessarily. Being able to stick the landing is hugely important for a series’ legacy. Game of Thrones disappeared from conversation after its disastrous final season, but would probably be fondly remembered if it had been suddenly cancelled after season five. If ROTJ had been a similar dumpster fire, Star Wars might have gone the same way.

          • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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            6 months ago

            Notice how basically no one ever mentions Lost or Game of Thrones anymore?

            These shows were HUGE during their time. “This is AMAZING. Television has never been like this before. You can’t be an adult in society if you haven’t seen last night’s episode because if you say you don’t watch this show the conversation will immediately end.” soon “What the fuck was that ending? The last season turned to shit! Never mention this shit to me again.”

            It’s like VindictiveJudge says, these shows are designed to feel like they’re going places but never actually get there. The writers of Lost put shit in that they thought looked intriguing but they hadn’t thought of any way to resolve it into something. “What do the numbers mean?!” Nothing! Absolutely nothing!

            Those shows are built like big epic stories, they’re not Star Trek type adventure of the week that returns to the status quo, and yet they’re not designed to resolve. Of course you’re going to leave unsatisfied.

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        The second seemed like an asset rip to me. It wasn’t bad per se, it just wasn’t Battlestar Galactica.

    • Captain Aggravated@sh.itjust.works
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      The original old show? It’s meh okay 70’s sci-fi TV. Not into the kid and his robot dog or whatever.

      The 2000s remake? It’s basically what cured my television habit. I was never really into the “gritty realistic” heartburn drama shit anyway, so I gave up on the show itself pretty early, then spent the rest of my time as an SG-1 fan having Katee Sackhoff scream in anguish at me during every single commercial break for years on end. Then every TV show made from then on had to be a dark and brooding show about terrible people being terrible to each other and then I stopped watching TV.

  • Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
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    6 months ago

    Completely agree.

    If I would ever be in desperate need of help it would instantly comfort me to see a trekkie or a metalhead. The average wholesomeness is ridiculously high.

    • VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      It still bugs me that they make a big deal about how few resources they have and then fire so many torpedoes and lose so many shuttles. I would have loved to have seen them pick up some locally sourced equipment.

      • smoothbrain coldtakes@lemmy.ca
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        6 months ago

        Honestly, my thought was always just that they could replicate equipment and components as needed but it was a power intensive process.

        There is a whole episode of Voyager where they land the ship to do repairs on it, and I just figure that happens more than we’re shown.

        I agree though, I would have preferred Voyager to have all crazy Borg shit forever. Would have been sick to have all this jury-rigged bullshit, almost like how DS9 is totally fucked.

        • VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          They also designed and built a custom shuttle, but iirc it was an open question as to whether or not the ship’s larger replicators could handle it, which implies they left with all the shuttles they lost and the Delta Flyer was the first they made.