Lemmy has a strong tendency to criticize the US, and a lot of the critiques of certain issue with the US are valid. However, I started getting really tired of opening comment sections in innocuous and non-political posts only to see that someone somehow found a way to criticize the US in it. At first, I started thinking that maybe some Lemmy users are really unhappy and find criticizing a something stronger helped them feel better as if standing up to injustice was a passion of theirs. But, we don’t see them do that with other targets, just the US. The more I notice and think about it, I’m starting be suspicious that some of those users and comments aren’t authentic, but made to create divisiveness in the West and reject the US entirely. In other words, they may be Russian, Chinese, et al. agents working to feed a stream of propaganda in order to further cause chaos and lack of unity in the West as we have seen them do before.
Anyone else think about this?
This is what I’m thinking the game plan is:
- Criticize something obviously unjust that the US has done. Ignore that all other major powers have also committed atrocities.
- Link and liken it to other US matters & behaviors
- Paint the US entirely as evil so that nothing the US can do is just
- Attack anyone that supports anything out of the US (we are between here and #3 above)
- Create a black-and-white model of geopolitics: US vs everyone else. EU and Russia on the same team lol
- West fragments as US and EU relationship dwindle from pseudo-populist movements (e.g. MAGA)
- Pick specific countries in the EU to start alienating and repeat the cycle
- ???
- Profit in special economic zones
Fuck the US hyper-centrism. If this place was so anti US, why are all the communities titled “News” and “Politics” exclusively for discussing seppo shit? This place is less US-centric than other platforms but is still extremely US focused. If you look for more than a second, you will find anti-russia, anti-china, anti-israel and anti-germany shit too (just to name a few). Finally, I just want to say, fuck the United States of America and everything that that hellhole represents. I am sorry that you have to live there
I honestly feel like Lemmy got considerably less vitriolic toward Americans after the election.
I used to think Lemmy was too insignificant for Russian influents, but I’m not sure anymore.
find criticizing a something stronger helped them feel better
🤦
Are you for real? And you are surprised US and USians get criticised?
Have you seen America lately?
Your question contains hints at where you’re coming from.
At first, I started thinking that maybe some Lemmy users are really unhappy and find criticizing a something stronger helped them feel better
You look at the criticism and you think they’re simply people being jealous or something, that’s not it at all. To be fair I’m not sure about what criticism are you seeing constantly, but the ones I’ve encountered mostly reflect my own criticism of it, e.g. the worst health care in the world, terrible education, abismal class gap, blatant racism, police brutality, overspenditure in military, school shootings, etc, etc, etc. Let me be absolutely clear, the US is NOT stronger than any developed country in any of these, I’ve lived in places with terrible healthcare that I would not wish on my worst enemy and they’re still leaps and bounds better than what you guys have.
But, we don’t see them do that with other targets, just the US.
But we do, the difference is no one is making posts claiming Russia is a better country and that’s why people criticize it. And most other countries accept their shortcomings, take it from the thread a while back from what people in the US need to hear and the similar one for Europe. Every single one of the answers on the US had someone saying that it was just jealousy, or that it wasn’t all that bad, or that that was better than the alternative, or one guy even tried to tell me that his city had none of those issues. On the other hand in the EU one most of the answers were more akin to “you’re right, this is something that’s really bad here”.
reject the US entirely. In other words, they may be Russian, Chinese, et al. agents working to feed a stream of propaganda in order to further cause chaos and lack of unity in the West as we have seen them do before.
Let me be extremely clear here, Fuck Russia, Fuck China. For all of my criticisms of the USA it is still a (very weird and indirect) democracy. So if I had to choose between those 3 I’ll take the USA every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Luckily I don’t, and I can live in a country without any of the issues I see there and express my opinion on how poorly the USA treats their citizens (you have to keep paying taxes after moving abroad for crying out loud) in the same manner I would express myself against any other country doing the same.
Criticize something obviously unjust that the US has done. Ignore that all other major powers have also committed atrocities.
Most of the criticism I see re for what the US is doing NOW, not in the past.
Paint the US entirely as evil so that nothing the US can do is just
I don’t think that’s what the majority is doing, there could be a few people like it, but for the major part I think people recognize that the USA is a a “decent” place to live, especially when compared to Russia or China. But what you need to understand is that it’s not the greatest country of all like you think, most of us would not move there unless we were offered ludicrous amounts of money.
EU and Russia on the same team lol
No one in Europe believes that, in fact you can still see plenty of Ukrainian flags around.
West fragments as US and EU relationship dwindle from pseudo-populist movements (e.g. MAGA)
If you think MAGA is pseudo-populism I would hate to see what you consider as real populism.
The short answer is that you’re probably not used to people telling you the US is not all that great, so you see that as an attack, and you think that because people criticize you that means they are trying to make others hate you, but I think most of us are just pointing your shortcomings because a lot of you act like very entitled narcissists who think there’s nothing wrong with the USA so obviously those who speak against it must be puppets.
TL;DR: criticism of the USA doesn’t mean there’s nothing good there, much less is it an endorsing Russia or China. But you don’t need to tell narcissists what they’re doing well, they’ll tell you themselves.
Most of the anti-American sentiment I’ve seen on SM over the last 2 or 3 years has been from Americans. It sucks here unless you’re rich, racist, and/or incredibly stupid.
You are describing tankies. Not everyone who criticize the US is a tankie. Stay away from lemmygrad, hexbear, lemmy.ml, and you’ll see legitimate criticisms of the US.
As someone who would probably qualify as one of these anti-American Americans on Lemmy I can say this: A big factor for me is the despair I feel (having genuinely believed the myths for most of my life) as I see the facade falling away. The genuine awfulness and inhumanity of not just our government, and our economy, but also of the culture, the people themselves, is just overwhelming. These forums are one of the outlets I’ve been using for my rage. I can only speak for myself. I’m not a bot, or a Russian actor, or an edgy teen. I’m a disillusioned middle aged American.
Arguably, disillusionment is the facade used to keep people in line
I’m allowed to complain. I live here.
as an american, i whole-heartedly support anti-american sentiment. we fucking deserve all of it. we voted in a clown shitshow of a government and of course the world should laugh
And this isn’t even the first clown shitshow of a government we’ve voted in this century
The first one wasn’t voted in. The first one was decided by the Supreme Court.
Yeah, actually that’s a really important point, plus between the insane amounts of essentially anonymous propaganda that’s been unleashed on us through Citizens United and all the state government voter suppression laws that were allowed by Shelby County we’ve really only been a quasi-democratic society at best for most of this. Americans aren’t uniquely terrible people compared to the citizens of any other country, we’ve just got some incredibly shitty rich people who ran the table on political power.
e; forgot to rest of my thought
of course. and dont forget the whole fucking over the globe by forcing our version of democracy everywhere. or that our biggest industry is generating human killing devices we spread across the planet under the guise of ‘defense’… or that our country was founded by genociding almost an entire continent of humans.
i find it beyond funny that we support israel because ‘they were there first’, but if you mention that maybe the american indians should rise up and take their country back you get very different responses. america is the land hypocrites.
I don’t think we’re the only land of hypocrisy out there (like, listen to Russia talk about how they’re the real protectors of human rights, or China say other countries are threatening their national security, or Mexico complain about cartel violence while letting their police do whatever they want, or Israel do so much shit I don’t know where to start), but, yeah, a lot of us are brainwashed as hell, and our government is completely full of shit whenever it’s scolding anyone else about human rights, international law, the climate, etc.
i find it beyond funny that we support israel because ‘they were there first’, but if you mention that maybe the american indians should rise up and take their country back you get very different responses.
Yep, and also the fact that there’s such a vocal anti-migrant movement here after almost all of our ancestors in immigrated here is completely absurd
As an outsider (not american and don’t live in the US) I just want to add that I’m not “anti-american”. The problem is that you guys built a “bully” reputation while at the same time we see the hardships the regular american have to go through without healthcare, education and labour laws, and nobody really cares.
Nearly half the electorate didn’t vote for the reactionaries. I’d also add that this regression isn’t an exclusively American phenomenon, we’re just unfortunately at the vanguard.
it wasnte even half… 88 milllion eligible voters didnt vote at all. not voting is making a decision. people that do not vote at all are complicit
Hard disagree, Republicans wouldn’t do so much voter suppression bullshit if it didn’t have any effect. People who don’t vote are almost always being oppressed in a variety of different ways.
I waited in line for five hours to vote, and I don’t even live in a place that does voter suppression bs. I can understand why some people threw up their hands and went home. Then you’ve got the people who did vote but had their vote invalidated by bureaucratic nonsense. The deck is stacked against the people
they suppress the vote because if all eligible voters voted, they would never win another election. i stand by the fact that if you did not vote at all, you are complicit in letting democracy die at the hands of conservative extremists.
Well, I’m a real European who is not a fan of the US. Not to the point where I’d prefer Russia or other dictatorship shitholes, but it’s like having to choose between getting kicked in the balls really hard and getting shot in the head (just for context, I’m not one of the people who enjoy being kicked in the balls).
Every sane person in this situation would choose getting kicked in the balls, but that doesn’t mean you’re really happy about it.
I’m less worried about the anti-American tendencies than about the pro-Russian and pro-Chinese ones.
There are cases where they legitimately offer something better so they are viewed favorable. Especially China for some regional investments.
These are in my opinion good reasons and you have to ask yourself what the West can do better to change it.
We could always emulate China and start rounding up our minorities into camps and arresting any citizens who speak out. Would that be better?
Read a history book.
Because how could anyone support the country with a higher living standard than America changed in the time frame of one generation, right?
North Korea really is amazing isn’t it?
!If you don’t get it, North Korea allegedly is a wonderful place to live with very high living standards but obviously isn’t. Closed communication countries like China, North Korea, and increasingly Russia’s claims about “how good things are” must be taken with an absolute grain of salt. Unfortunately, this list could even come to include the United States soon given Trump’s desire to silence critics.!<
A grain of salt? More like a truckload.
How is China is any way closed communication? Don’t answer.
Don’t answer.
Because the CCP will come arrest you if you do?
Because they’re just dealing brain dead slop
The great firewall exists. They have to use euphemisms to get around the censors.
Yes that doesn’t equal closed. Tiktok is censored but a lot of recent US movements have spread via the app
If you can’t criticize authority I don’t find that to be an open Internet. TikTok doesn’t exist in China. Try to say Trans rights are human rights on Douyin and see what happens.
Try to say trans rights are human rights to any American official. Stop with the whataboutism, red scare, racism. Just say you’re stuck in the Cold War. Any liberal when you say anything about China positive acts like a child.
Don’t answer.
Exactly, you’re getting it.
Your wasteful sarcasm aside, what China has done for its people economically and for standard of living is unbelievable. Continue your whataboutism though
That may be true as long as you are on party line.
Bro thinks 1.1 billion people work for the government.
American here. When you elect a man—twice—whose character and policies have led to a fractured nation, a failing education system, crumbling infrastructure, and a healthcare system that leaves millions behind, it’s no surprise that the world views us with disdain. When your citizens are struggling to afford basic necessities like rent and groceries while a handful of individuals hoard wealth that rivals entire nations, we’ve earned every ounce of criticism.
Buckle up, because the descent into this nightmare is far from over. The worst is yet to come, and it’s going to be a long, suffocating fall.
Don’t forget one of our largest cities is currently on fire because of our own man made climate change that we are (I believe) the number one cause of, but those same leaders are telling us to shrug and say “who knows why”
I find it a little frustrating that you think any of this started with, because of, or will end with cheeto.
This:
a fractured nation, a failing education system, crumbling infrastructure, and a healthcare system that leaves millions behind
has always been the case, and it is a feature, not a bug. Always has been.
And it will never change as long as you continue to focus on the things the system tells you to focus on (like team red vs team blue, or the clown at the front of the stage) rather than on the system itself (a state mechanism built on slavery and genocide from day dot, and designed and enforced by and for the rich and powerful, who are the ones actually pulling the strings) and abolishing that.
And before OP gets their underwear in a twist - all states are oppressive and should be abolished, but a country founded on and with the biggest hard on for capitalism on the planet, and who has the power to, and has been since its founding, loudly and aggressively dragging the rest of the world on a race to the bottom (if not directly with war mongering and political interfering, then with profiteering off of their enemies war mongering and politically interfering), deserves all the criticism it gets, and the fact that it’s easier for you to create a straw person to dismiss the perfectly valid and long overdue criticism, than it is to hear them and sit with the mild discomfort it causes you to hear the truth and confront reality, is a you problem, not a lemmy problem.
How insanely American to think America being criticized a lot must mean propaganda.
Lemmy.world may have the least of this since they neolib gobblers
I’m American. I love where I live. There’s a lot of great people, food, experiences, and places. It’s a vast place where a lot of great, forward looking things happen.
However, the government allows billionaires to control it and prevents it from serving its people. We are fucking angry.
America: practices actual slavery
American: I love it here.
Christ man, there’s shit to criticise about every nation, none are worth praise imho. But America isn’t even close to being “just a little bit evil” let alone good.
Removed by mod
And nothing will change through voting for nothing candidates like Kamala or Trump
What’s lemmy.selfhostcat.com known for?
Based on this thread, sucking off China.
We all have hobbies.
Nice pussy.
lol, liking cute wittle putty cats I guess :)
Honestly, most of it seems like edgy kids who learned about communism from a YouTube video and are now convinced they have the secret to a better world that nobody else understands. So many of the comments display a substantial lack of understanding about the real world. Many other comments are completely disingenuous, blatantly ignoring or attacking anything that doesn’t support their singular argument. They’re the viewpoints of inexperienced teenagers, not adult discussions.
There are certainly propaganda posts and communities, but I think the majority of the work is done by actual people who are just echoing what they’ve read or heard. Filter out a few key communities and a lot of it will disappear.
But, to answer your question more directly, yes, I do feel what you’re saying and it gets annoying. Sometimes it gets overwhelming and I consider just deleting my account entirely. I’m so very tired of only seeing the extremes of either side of the pendulum online, rather than having a place for discussion with people of all viewpoints. I’m tired of the polarization.
