I work with a lib who thinks it’s a silly conspiracy theory that the CIA would have been involved, and I get the vibe from him that he believes it would actually change things if the facts came out and it was actually the CIA behind it; I’ve spent a fair bit of time trying to convince him that unlike in the movies, when the facts come out and they reveal horrific stuff, people will just find reasons to be okay with it (as opposed to movies that give the impression that the truth coming out would cause change, as if America isn’t just a lib/chud wasteland).
I have an older friend who is really into aliens. It’s like, their thing. And they are completely 100% convinced that once the truth about aliens comes out it’s
GOING
TO
CHANGE
EVERTHING
and my other friends and I try to tell them like “oh yeah, well you’re still gonna go to work the next day, I’m still gonna have to pay rent, and I’m still gonna want my coffee. ‘Knowing’ about aliens doesn’t really change any of that.”
Like others have said, people will learn about things and find a way to square it with their life as already lived. And like you said, it’s absolute idealism. But this friend is convicned that we need no politics, no revolution, no change, just aliens, and that’ll do.
Okay I’ve been trying for like a year now to find a book (might’ve been a short story) that also has devil-like aliens that have “invaded” earth but I think they’re a bit harsher than the ones in Childhoods End (possibly using us for livestock, but can’t remember for sure). I wanna say it was a black author but I have searched the internet high and low for it with no luck. Lmk if anyone has any ideas.
I don’t think that narrows it down quite enough. Cause the Octavia Butler books immediately come to mind with that description but I don’t think that is exactly it.
That reminds me of an article I was reading about whether Trump would invade Mexico or not after classifying cartels as terrorist organizations.
There were a bunch of people speaking about how it could go down, etc., and there was one dude whose contribution was to basically say, ‘What people who are saying there will be a military intervention forget is that it’s not that easy because it would essentially be a declaration of war.’ Wow. Really? That’s such a relief. That has definitely stopped the US from invading countries in the past! Fucking bozo dumbass.
The most important part of declaring cartels as terrorist organizations is that the fucking post-9/11 AUMF, which is still in effect almost a quarter century later, would apply.
I would be interested less in who did it (because no matter what the president signs, if people think the CIA won’t still hide shit, well… share the magical drugs with me!) and more if we can get like concrete, recorded official reasons why JFK was shot.
A lot of the assumptions about their involvement hinge on known resentments between the Kennedy bros and the intelligence agencies. There’s “the whole Bay of Pigs thing” (Nixon quote) which obviously drove a huge wedge between them. Plus JFK was circumventing normal communication lines during the missile crisis to speak with the USSR. Basically says to all his little generals and directors and such like “I don’t trust you psychos. I’ll just handle this personally in the background.”
Anyway, not trying to paint JFK as like a “peaceful” guy. He wasn’t. He spent his career consistently running as a democrat on a platform of “I hate commies more than republicans!” (Like Nixon) There seems to be some evidence he changed at least partially right before getting his head blown off. He was more open to talks with Castro anyway. Then blammo.
If the CIA does admit it finally, I’d like to know when the decision was made and reasons why. But obviously this is a pipedream. They ain’t releasing that even if it ever existed. And all the accomplices have been dead for a decade or longer at this point.
my personal pet theory is that the kennedys had made public enemies of certain east coast organized crime syndicates that had maintained connections with the intelligence community since their allowed infiltration of organized labor. and while maybe the military and The Company didn’t explicitly order Kennedy to be assassinated, it was facilitated through their networks, connecting the groups with the reactionary motives (exiled cuban compradors & east coast organized crime figures) and means with somewhat of a blessing.
i base this entirely on what would be most embarrassing if it were ever become fully unraveled.
yes, this is where i sit. the Dulles brothers had made a life’s work out building an entire world order and they weren’t going to let some jumped up bootlegger’s son take it apart. even the milquetoast “maybe we shouldnt do interventionism and arms dealing everywhere” concept of a concept from Kennedy was enough to start the alarm bells ringing - actively pushing back against Dulles was, in the minds of the machine they’d built, absolutely unthinkable
Even if they come right out and say “it was the CIA”, I don’t think anything would really happen. It would be like the reveal of COINTELPRO.
I work with a lib who thinks it’s a silly conspiracy theory that the CIA would have been involved, and I get the vibe from him that he believes it would actually change things if the facts came out and it was actually the CIA behind it; I’ve spent a fair bit of time trying to convince him that unlike in the movies, when the facts come out and they reveal horrific stuff, people will just find reasons to be okay with it (as opposed to movies that give the impression that the truth coming out would cause change, as if America isn’t just a lib/chud wasteland).
“There’s no way it could have been the CIA. Their charter explicitly forbids them from operating on US soil!”
Edit:
It is worth noting that this is a PERFECT crystallization of what idealism means (believing reality is shaped and transformed by thought).
Meanwhile, the CIA has their version of COINTELPRO called Operation CHAOS and the FBI has oversea offices throughout the world.
it’s amazing and sad how so many liberal beliefs can be distilled into “DOGS CANT PLAY BASKETBALL”
I hate this; this basically happened with a question I asked on reddit: https://hexbear.net/post/2890111
Someone actually tried to say Biden can’t do anything about Trump’s run for presidency because “iphones can’t eat cheeseburgers” (https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/1dssr87/if_trump_or_the_republican_party_is_actually_that/lb4h44k/)
EDIT: And he doubles down on his example on a followup reply: https://www.reddit.com/r/TooAfraidToAsk/comments/1dssr87/if_trump_or_the_republican_party_is_actually_that/lb4ln1f/
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I have an older friend who is really into aliens. It’s like, their thing. And they are completely 100% convinced that once the truth about aliens comes out it’s
GOING
TO
CHANGE
EVERTHING
and my other friends and I try to tell them like “oh yeah, well you’re still gonna go to work the next day, I’m still gonna have to pay rent, and I’m still gonna want my coffee. ‘Knowing’ about aliens doesn’t really change any of that.”
Like others have said, people will learn about things and find a way to square it with their life as already lived. And like you said, it’s absolute idealism. But this friend is convicned that we need no politics, no revolution, no change, just aliens, and that’ll do.
It’ll be this tbh
This gave me a laugh, thanks
Unless they pull a Childhood’s End and
spoiler
pull a human instrumentality project on us.
That’d make a change
yummy fanter
I wouldn’t mind the tang
Okay I’ve been trying for like a year now to find a book (might’ve been a short story) that also has devil-like aliens that have “invaded” earth but I think they’re a bit harsher than the ones in Childhoods End (possibly using us for livestock, but can’t remember for sure). I wanna say it was a black author but I have searched the internet high and low for it with no luck. Lmk if anyone has any ideas.
I don’t think that narrows it down quite enough. Cause the Octavia Butler books immediately come to mind with that description but I don’t think that is exactly it.
Hmm not sure
I’m searching online, but I don’t think I’ll have more luck than you have.
That reminds me of an article I was reading about whether Trump would invade Mexico or not after classifying cartels as terrorist organizations.
There were a bunch of people speaking about how it could go down, etc., and there was one dude whose contribution was to basically say, ‘What people who are saying there will be a military intervention forget is that it’s not that easy because it would essentially be a declaration of war.’ Wow. Really? That’s such a relief. That has definitely stopped the US from invading countries in the past! Fucking bozo dumbass.
The most important part of declaring cartels as terrorist organizations is that the fucking post-9/11 AUMF, which is still in effect almost a quarter century later, would apply.
Yup.
Ah yes the classic “force the vote” argument.
I would be interested less in who did it (because no matter what the president signs, if people think the CIA won’t still hide shit, well… share the magical drugs with me!) and more if we can get like concrete, recorded official reasons why JFK was shot.
A lot of the assumptions about their involvement hinge on known resentments between the Kennedy bros and the intelligence agencies. There’s “the whole Bay of Pigs thing” (Nixon quote) which obviously drove a huge wedge between them. Plus JFK was circumventing normal communication lines during the missile crisis to speak with the USSR. Basically says to all his little generals and directors and such like “I don’t trust you psychos. I’ll just handle this personally in the background.”
Anyway, not trying to paint JFK as like a “peaceful” guy. He wasn’t. He spent his career consistently running as a democrat on a platform of “I hate commies more than republicans!” (Like Nixon) There seems to be some evidence he changed at least partially right before getting his head blown off. He was more open to talks with Castro anyway. Then blammo.
If the CIA does admit it finally, I’d like to know when the decision was made and reasons why. But obviously this is a pipedream. They ain’t releasing that even if it ever existed. And all the accomplices have been dead for a decade or longer at this point.
my personal pet theory is that the kennedys had made public enemies of certain east coast organized crime syndicates that had maintained connections with the intelligence community since their allowed infiltration of organized labor. and while maybe the military and The Company didn’t explicitly order Kennedy to be assassinated, it was facilitated through their networks, connecting the groups with the reactionary motives (exiled cuban compradors & east coast organized crime figures) and means with somewhat of a blessing.
i base this entirely on what would be most embarrassing if it were ever become fully unraveled.
Gonna be a huge year for Italians if the CIA confirms the Italian mob whacked a president
Imo, firing Dulles was the red line.
yes, this is where i sit. the Dulles brothers had made a life’s work out building an entire world order and they weren’t going to let some jumped up bootlegger’s son take it apart. even the milquetoast “maybe we shouldnt do interventionism and arms dealing everywhere” concept of a concept from Kennedy was enough to start the alarm bells ringing - actively pushing back against Dulles was, in the minds of the machine they’d built, absolutely unthinkable
Also Dulles was on the investigative committee, for some reason
That’s a paddlin
At least November Caldwell-Kelly would have to admit she was wrong.
God she would still find some way to be smug & self-superior even while admitting it.
Pet theory: Trump will attempt to use it to give rationale aside from his personal grievances to wind down the FBI