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Explanation: For all the many flaws of the ‘big 7’ Founding Fathers, 6/7 of them were firmly secularist. 2 were not Christians in the modern sense (Jefferson, Franklin), two may not have been Christians (Washington, Madison), two were secular Christians (Hamilton, Adams), and only one advocated for involvement of the Christian faith in public affairs (John Jay).
In fact, for several generations after the American Revolution, Christian fundamentalists in the USA regularly condemned the foundation of the country by ‘heathens’ as wicked, and the USA itself as an aberration.
It would seem once they saw an opportunity to worm their way into power, they reversed their opinion on the American polity.
Nowadays, church and state remain formally separate in the USA, but in practice, there is a rapidly eroding barrier between the two due to the support of a majority of voting Americans for conservative and fascist shitheads.
Likewise, John Marshall, who often gets left out of these conversations but who in my opinion is worthy of being included with the ‘Big 7’ as the ‘Big 8’, was a Unitarian, but he didn’t attend church. His wife Polly did and was a devout Christian, but she would go on her own.
only one advocated for involvement of the Christian faith in public affairs (John Jay).
literal who?
secularism is social progress, and thus, woke.
literal who?
- Minister to Spain during the Revolutionary War.
- A negotiator for the Treaty of Paris. Later negotiated “Jay’s Treaty” which was deeply unpopular but arguably delayed another war with Britain until Madison got drunk on imperialism one night and started the War of 1812.
- Secretary of Foreign Affairs when the US was still under the Articles of Confederation (acting Secretary of State under Washington several months thereafter).
- Third co-author of The Federalist Papers with Hamilton and Madison.
- First Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court (albeit at this time the caseload was light, and the court’s stature was nothing like it became under Marshall). This mainly included establishing how the court was actually supposed to do its job.
- Governor of New York for six years and got emancipation passed there.
Jay was incredibly influential in the early success of the US, but no one thing he did is individually “sexy”, so he’s not liable to be the focus of a secondary school US history lesson.
but you still didn’t explain the drake and josh reference that makes the punchline.
josh (george washington) says “where is the door (separation of church and state)?” drake says "there, where i marked it with the marker, ", and then they go back and forth about it, and then drake tries to get the saw to cut it out, but fails, because he can’t get out, because the door isn’t cut out yet. so as drake realizes that they are trapped, he says “i see the problem”, and josh iconically replies “oh DO YA?”
wasn’t there also something about bi party?
Washington, in particular, was an opponent of political parties as a whole, which he felt lent themselves to tribalism and graft.
So, besides being Six-foot-eight, and weighing a fucking ton, he was also precognizant.
He also has a wig for his wig and a brain for a heart.
This level of foreshadowing would be seen as trite if in a recent work of fiction.
Why did the fundamentalists see the US as an aberration?
Precisely because it was well-known that the First Amendment was meant seriously. As the Treaty of Tripoli says, signed by John Adams, one of the Founding Fathers who definitely was Christian, as ratified by the Senate:
As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion;
Effectively, secularism and pluralism were still, at that time period, radical ‘liberal’ ideas that many conservatives were not onboard with. I mean, shit, Jews were still kept in ghettos in most of Europe, and in most places only Catholicism or (generally a specific strain of) Protestantism were accepted, rarely both. Whoever heard of a country that wasn’t founded on GOD!?
At this point I have to do this
That’s not all true. Greed has a lot to do with it as well.
" However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion. "
George Washington - Farewell Address | Saturday, September 17, 1796
He called this shit on day fucking one. Not listening to the no political parties thing doomed us.
It should have been put in the Constitution that political parties are banned/illegal. He wanted to do it.
Yes, or voting on policies not people
Damn.
Spot. On.
ICE throws Washington into an unmarked vehicle and deports him. No birth certificate, technically a British Subject, and threatens the current regime.
If GW were alive today questions about Church v State would probably be way down on his list of “WTF is going on here?!”.
I mean the BoR applying to the States, individual taxes, the stupid amount of power that the Federal Government has, the utter disregard of the 9th and 10th Amendments, our large standing Army…all of these things would be of WAY more concern and confusion to him.
As Washington himself noted, “To place any dependence upon militia, is, assuredly, resting upon a broken staff.” He was foundational in establishing the Legion of the United States and establishment of the US Navy as a permanent standing force, and was generally aligned with the Federalists who wanted a stronger Federal government. I presume by ‘individual taxes’ you mean income tax, considering that one of the first taxes in the USA was levied on individuals producing alcohol, which Washington was willing to use force to ensure compliance with.
Hey George can you clarify the 2nd amendment?
George Washington, looking up from the trump-epstein files: Give the people manpads
He’d still be looking for his wife’s favorite escaped slave. (A real person)
Wait till they hear about Jesus. Dude was a communist hippie.
If Washington were alive today he would say “The Moon? You mean the big round thing in the sky? The fucking moon? People went there? They walked on it? On the fucking moon?”
If Washington was alive today he’d ask how all those slaves were walking around in public. You don’t get much more non-woke than a slave owner.
And for anyone who cites his writing about how bad it made him feel, imagine how the humans he held in bondage that was enforced by multiple layers of brutal violence felt, and reflect that for Washington’s purported struggle he somehow never landed on “grant them their freedom.”
Considering that most of the last year of his life was consumed by him attempting to sell his estate and and making plans to (ideally) purchase the dower slaves he did not legally own, but who formed families with the slaves that he did, in the interest of granting them all their freedom? And when he unexpectedly and quickly died, his will freed all the slaves he did own?
You can say it’s still insufficient, and you’re not wrong. But “he somehow never landed on grant them their freedom” isn’t it.
He also implemented the first non-segregated units in the US military and was a supporter of the abolition of slavery, so I doubt he would be asking about where ‘slaves’ got ‘gold chains’.
"However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion. "
Washington: “Called it.”
Probably close to reality:
Washington if he were actually alive today: “My that’s a fine Rye
bourbonindustry we’ve got going”Edit: He made rye not bourbon
Pretty sure that liberals (in the center-left popular definition) haven’t been using"woke" in ages, since the term has been successfully muddied and vilified by conservatives.
Yeah, as an observer from across the pond I only know it as a slur used by rightwingers.
And 4chan is rightwing, so that checks out.
Washington: wakes up in 2026
mad scientists: Mr. President, what do think of this modern era!?
Washington: where are my wife and children!?Hed scroll tiktok for 20 minutes before seeing enough and eating his musket
