• SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world
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    29 days ago

    Same with water usage. Everybody has to reduce water, not wash cars while industry and agriculture who use like ¾ of the water don’t do anything

      • thunderfist@lemmy.world
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        29 days ago

        Juts search for “AI water consumption” or “data center water consumption”. I’ll agree that “we could be using this to wash our cars” is a silly argument, but water shortages affect between 2 and 3 billion people every year (https://www.unesco.org/en/articles/imminent-risk-global-water-crisis-warns-un-world-water-development-report-2023). We could be doing more with this water than cloud computing and AI.

        • stonehopper@lemmy.world
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          29 days ago

          Wait a sec, how do they consume water for cooling, i thought it’s in a closed loop as its purpose is only transferring heat

          • thunderfist@lemmy.world
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            29 days ago

            Some facilities is do this. They’re not 100% efficient, so some is lost to evaporation, some must be dumped because it has too much mineral content (and too much conductivity) to go back through the cooling system. Reusing is only about 50% efficient (according to Google’s numbers).

          • scutiger@lemmy.world
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            29 days ago

            On a standard PC, you can easily have a loop because the radiator is big enough to exhause all that heat. But when your computer or cluster puts out multiple thousands of watts of heat, eventually you need to get rid of tge hot water and replace it with cold water. And when it gets even hotter, you need a steady stream of cold water that immediately gets dumped.

          • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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            29 days ago

            Half a liter per kilowatt hour. That’s the average water use

            It’s like the idea of recycling plastics with water.
            Not all of it is reusable to the same degree. A good portion of water has to be evaporated off to cool down the exterior towers plus water isn’t really infinitely usable in these loops. It gets gross or full of materials.

            Another thing that people need to remember is generating electricity uses the water here as we literally don’t use many methods that don’t involve water, we are not on a green grid and neither are these huge data centers for the most part. We boil it for the electricity then have to use additional to clean the system after.

          • psud@aussie.zone
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            23 days ago

            If you live in a low humidity area you can cool with an evaporative cooler cheaper than with air con. Evaporative coolers consume quite a bit of water

          • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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            29 days ago

            Not really. Look at California agriculture. You’ve got immense and unsustainable amounts of water going to almonds, pistachios, and other cash crops (not to mention animal feed for the Saudis) with voracious demand for more water, despite it causing damage to the water sources.

            • psud@aussie.zone
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              23 days ago

              The big problem crop for water in California is almonds.

              The big problem crop for water in Australia is cotton.

              The big problem crop for water anywhere is not beef

      • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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        29 days ago

        The US massively overproduces food. We absolutely can afford to not water some of those crops.

        • bionicjoey@lemmy.ca
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          29 days ago

          The US massively overuses cars. You can absolutely afford to not wash your car.

            • bionicjoey@lemmy.ca
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              29 days ago

              You can just… not wash your car. It literally doesn’t matter. If water rationing is in effect, washing your car should be the least of your concerns.

              • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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                29 days ago

                I don’t care about washing my car. I care that they’re moderating our car washing while allowing foreign businessmen to use as much water as they want on hay that gets exported. And that could be fine if they were doing it in the Mid West. No, they’re doing it in Phoenix, Arizona. A region that knows it’s counting down to a zero day.

                So while I’m not washing my car, they shouldn’t be watering those crops.

              • nBodyProblem@lemmy.world
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                29 days ago

                Not washing cars results in long term damage to the car. If you have a 200k mile shitbox with peeling clear coat, sure, you don’t need to wash it because it probably won’t matter.

                If you have something nice with good paint, washing is an important maintenance item

              • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemm.ee
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                29 days ago

                If you don’t wash your car and you’ll get corrosion from the salt on the road. If you live where it snows of course.

                • bionicjoey@lemmy.ca
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                  29 days ago

                  This person is talking about being from the desert, so yeah, no sympathy here. The Fremen could figure out that water shouldn’t be wasted when it’s scarce.

          • TheKMAP@lemmynsfw.com
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            29 days ago

            If the cars are overused that means they require more maintenance, not less. I want walkable places but that’s not the argument to make lol

          • psud@aussie.zone
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            23 days ago

            If you wash a car it uses less fuel. Dirt makes cars less aerodynamic.

        • Wooki@lemmy.world
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          28 days ago

          lol fresh food is like all public health and wellbeing is non existent unless its been heavily industrialised to make as much money out of it as possible.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
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            28 days ago

            Farmers’markets exist but in many cases they’re more expensive than buying at the grocery store. At any rate we already pay Ag corps to leave land fallow so the West and Mid West doesn’t get over farmed again. Telling them to water only 95 percent of their cash crops shouldn’t be a problem.

    • SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
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      29 days ago

      Free market economics are going to slurp any extra watt as long as it’s capable of making a modicum of profit, unless it is just told “no”. The private sector is going to have to pay far more for their power, or else we’ll never reach NET zero emissions.

      • Lowlee Kun@feddit.de
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        29 days ago

        “bUt ThInK aBoUt ThE eCoNoMy!!”

        • Everytime, anyone every mentions any of the many unfair advantages that businesses are getting.
        • UltraGiGaGigantic@lemm.ee
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          29 days ago

          Just replace “economy” with “rich peoples money” to translate.

          Perhaps people would give a shit about the economy if we could afford to own a house?

      • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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        29 days ago

        There’s no free market. Free market would mean no copyright, no patents, no brand protection. With real free market (provided you have endless energy from Satan knows where to support that state of things) we’d have noname small to medium businesses coming and going, bigger corporations existing for very complex supply chains and\or some advantageous trade secrets.

        That would potentially cause stagnation in some long perspective, but fix the current situation.

          • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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            29 days ago

            Well, there is a joke about Chernobyl station fulfilling the 5-year plan for energy output in 5 seconds.

            I meant that to protect that free market from various people trying to make it less free in their favor you’d need that energy. Which is why it’ll never reach that state.

            And removing those very important limitations I named is very hard, even unrealistic maybe, but that doesn’t mean that it’s adequate to pretend that a market including them is free. They change everything.

      • ModernEraCaveman@lemmy.world
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        20 days ago

        Even if it’s told “no,” it’ll take the person or entity that denied them access straight to the courts, all the while continuing to do so anyway.

    • Aceticon@lemmy.world
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      29 days ago

      The really juicy bit is the hypocrisy of asking common people to refrain from consuming.

      “Fuck you plebe” would at least have the positive of being honest.

      • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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        29 days ago

        That’s history. The ones with the means hoard anything of value while blaming the commons for their problems. Doesn’t matter if it’s the Irish Potato Famine or telling us global warming is our fault because we didn’t buy enough greenwashed shit to fix it.

        • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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          29 days ago

          The Irish famine was more of a result of imperial policy. It’s about genocidal states, not capitalism. I mean, yes, most of Ireland was owned by landlords residing elsewhere, and “protection” of their rights was one of the reasons, but there were also things quite obviously showing the intent, like widespread destruction of church records and local history.

            • rottingleaf@lemmy.zip
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              29 days ago

              There really was a motive, if you wish, to use the land freed by expelled (or dead) tenants for something else.

              I just don’t like blaming things on markets and profit motives and capitalism in general, because “tit for tat” in human interactions is not something you can just replace ideologically. It’s in our nature. The sane approach is to make it work in less catastrophic ways, like with sports and video games and martial arts and adult entertainment.

              • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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                29 days ago

                I think profit and power, or the lack thereof, can be the root of a lot of these awful human traits. It can just be straight up greed driven by a few looking to gain power and/or money that push an agenda of [insert tried and true bogeymen here like xenophobia, religion, racism, etc.] to create motives and instabity to trigger the wars. It could be genuine problems like economic issues or severe agricultural deficiency, via real misfortune or more likely due to greed, corruption, and mismanagement by the country’s leadership. Even religion can be the rationalization, a tit-for-tat, but nonetheless the end result is to take what the enemy has. It doesn’t have to be formalized markets or capitalism.

  • psmgx@lemmy.world
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    29 days ago

    To paraphrase another Twitter post, “AI uses the same amount of power per day as Guatemala for the sole purpose of making kinda acceptable slide decks for consultants to use when telling other corporate types how many people to fire”

  • bluewing@lemm.ee
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    29 days ago

    Perhaps if there was a lot less asphalt and concrete and more shade trees and grass, it might be a bit cooler and more comfortable?

    • ameancow@lemmy.world
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      29 days ago

      Yah that would help somewhat.

      But here’s the problem. Carbon Dioxide is like three springly balls stuck together when most other molecules in the air have two springy balls stuck together.

      The more springy balls are in the air, the more they can absorb the wiggles from sunlight, and then even when the sun isn’t shining them springs are still wiggling, releasing that wiggle into other molecules and objects slowly, at a rate much higher than if it were more nitrogen or oxygen. Our biggest problem here is one as simple as slinky-physics. We have too many springy balls wiggling in the sky, wiggling too hard and making everything wiggle more.

      • alcedine@discuss.tchncs.de
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        29 days ago

        The way you were able to put it so simply makes me really wish that explanation was correct, but unfortunately it is not.

        It’s more along the lines of:

        • All things shine away their hot, as long as they are at least a little bit hot.
          • You know the sun shines, but actually the earth shines too.
          • Actually, you shine too. (That’s why you can be seen on an infrared camera.)
        • The hotter a thing is, the harder it shines.
          • The sun is really hot so it shines really hard.
          • The earth is much less hot, and shines way, way less.
        • The earth gets more hot from catching the shine from the sun, and less hot from shining itself.
          • When the hot coming in from the sunshine is the same as the hot going out from the earthshine, the earth says the same hot.
          • When the hot coming in from the sunshine is more than the hot going out from the earthshine, the earth gets more hot.
            • And as the earth gets more hot, its earthshine becomes harder, until it’s the same as the sunshine again.
        • For the earthshine to take the hot away from the earth, it has to actually get to space.
          • Otherwise it’s like the earth shines on its own air, and the hot remains basically on (or around) the earth.
        • CO2 stops some parts of the earthshine from reaching space.
          • This part of the earthshine, when it starts from the ground, basically never gets to space.
          • It can only get to space from really high up, where there is not so much CO2 in the way.
          • But really high up is also colder, so the earthshine is less (because hotter things shine harder).
          • The more CO2 there is, the higher up we have to go, the colder it is there, the weaker that part of the earthshine is.
          • And when the earthshine gets weaker, the actual earth has to be hotter to shine out as much hot as is coming in from the sunshine. Which is why CO2 makes the earth more hot.