- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
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The way I see it, all of us who migrated here won. Enshitification is eventually going to kill reddit, the only question is when. I’ll grab some popcorn when it happens, but for now won’t worry about it and just enjoy my time here on Lemmy.
Yeah, I agree with this suspiciously named man. Whether it happens sooner or later, Reddit’s death is on the horizon, as it will keep making the wrong choices and so steadily lose those communities and content that built it in the first place.
Reddit won’t actually die, it’ll just be a hollow shell of what it once was.
To illustrate my point, Digg still exists.
Have you been to digg recently? It’s a buzzfeed clone. Just because the brand is still around doesn’t mean it’s the same product at all
It’s like if I bought Nike and then killed off all their product lines and only sold high viscosity lithium grease. Yeah Nike would be around, but it would be meaningless beyond that
That’s what Decoy said.
Reddit won’t die, but it will not be what it was.
There’s a big difference between “die” like Facebook where less people are joining and using it, but it still functions as a “keep in touch with your family” site, and “die” like Digg whose community doesn’t exist at all, almost as if it got bought out by another company for the brand name only.
Tell me more about this high viscosity lithium grease
Thicc and spicy. Just do it.
I’m in
i too would like to hear more about this grease. please continue
I think that’s his point.
I think the point flew over your head.
Gordon Gecko checking in
I agree. I don’t think we’re there yet, but next time the they give people another reason to leave the Lemmy/kbin ecosystem will be even more appealing. Simply the app and dev community here is really exploding.
“I like the way ‘namffuH’ thinks!”
I agree with you. Actually, Lemmy woke me up to how much reddit had already been enshitified. I didn’t realize that I had stopped commenting altogether because the subs were so big that either no one saw your stuff, or there was always some one pissed off who felt the need to respond. Lemmy reminds me of reddit the way it was when I joined 12 years ago.
And forget about trying to post articles on any subreddit. Always buried with 0 votes, because some bot network is trying to promote the latest Barbie movie or whatever.
Or subs like gaming having posts with 4 comments and 7,000 up votes “I was recently diagnosed with stage 7 cancer and my dog died, but I created this game as my final contribution to humanity, here’s a trailer.”
2D Hollow Knight rip off video
Comments: “Wow amazing graphics!” “Is it on steam?!” “Looks amazing!” “I neeeeeed this!!”
Any attempt to call the ad out is -200
Or the powermod that hates you for unknown reason and will ban you forever. And the shadow bans. I don’t regret that place.
Not sure if you only posted on the mainsubs or what but Reddit really did hit that “hyper specific topic conversation” for me. Like up to the protests I could make a meme about a topic or reply to a post and have good discussions. When I deleted all my posts I deleted some of the top of all time posts off some subs lol.
Lemmy still hasnt hit that for me, I’m another in a swarm of people saying Lemmy doesn’t fulfill my topic based sub needs. Like I’m currently obsessed with Marvel Snap and loved the subreddit. The lemmy version is dead af. And I try to converse and interact but none of the lemmy filters for posts seem to show the posts reliably to me and I have to remember to go check it. The Spider-Man PS4 sub was another favorite of mine to interact with and I ended up having to make it for Lemmy and it’s got like 80 subscribers and I make a point to comment on every post but it’s still not getting much conversation going 😞
Same problem, I put some community in my favorites so I remember to check them out but we need more people here (but not too much people!)
do you really need a forum to talk about marvel snap? lol. just saying that card game is pretty fun but easy. what is there to talk about? (tongue in cheek)
How dare you? I feel the need to respond. \s
No it doesn’t.
Yea tbh Lemmy is kinda crap and definitely feels like only a short stop on the next major platform after reddit.
Not enough of reddit left the site so Lemmy is still very slow for content in comparison and lacks the more granular content that made reddit so good.
Lemmy is better then Reddit has ever been in my option.
Don’t like a community? Make your own.
Don’t like the admins? Make your own instance.
I blame that on too few users thus far. things are improving
It won’t die. It will just hollow out. Same as Digg. Same as Facebook, Twitter, and every other shitty part of the internet. The power users are what make the internet the magical place it is. Without those people, the sites will still work… but they won’t be as great as they were before their respective turning points. It’s a cycle it seems.
It won’t die. It will just hollow out.
The result is still basically the same IMHO. It’s like saying “it won’t die, it will just turn into a zombie” … sure it’ll still move, but it’s dead inside and rotting on the outside either way, devoid of the life and soul it once had.
It might not even kill it. Facebook is still kicking, after all, for all its enshittification. It’s just… idk, some of us were freed to move on to a more satisfying experience. That’s all. Life continues here, life continues there
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Facebook (the page) is dead in the sense that its parent company changed their name to not be the same as their (once powerhouse) product. Facebook trademark is so unbelievably cursed due to what it became that they’re pretending that it does not exist.
Meta is focusing on Instagram for now. They could’ve launched Threads within Facebook (I think it was at some point) but they choose not to. Instagram is how they reach out to the people.
This means that Facebook was enshittified successfully. It does not serve any purpose now.
I don’t think Reddit has the same choice as they don’t really have means to pivot to something else. It will just cease to be… Or not.
I understand why the didn’t do threads in Facebook incase they need to shut it down. Kinda like how they have Messenger then purchased WhatsApp but never integrated it if they want to shut one down.
Maybe Facebook got so big and their search is so good that people just stopped using Google search for it, but I have a hard time believing that can be responsible for a drop of this magnitude.
I would say you’re probably right. Remember this old gem?
Honestly if all the buttmunches stay there and all the cool people come here, I think that’s the ideal scenario.
facebook’s on the decline, meta’s betting on instagram since that’s what the kids use. facebook is for boomers to looking at family vacation photos and nazi radicalising and is a legacy service at this point.
do you know what a ‘boomer’ is? it’s slang for ‘baby boomer’ and it’s a specific age range of people born at specific times. plenty of people younger than that are on FB every day. just saying, if you didn’t know what ‘boomer’ was, it doesn’t just mean ‘old person’.
Yeah, I feel like I hit the jackpot by finding out about the fediverse/non-corporate social media.
I’ll grab some popcorn when it happens
There won’t be a day when reddit goes away, it will be a gradual decline, digg still exist.
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Honestly I’m happy with a slow death than a big freaking one. A humongous explosion is not always a good thing lol.
Right? The protest was just the lighter. Now we watch as the fuse burns. Fuck off Gizmodo, Reddit didn’t win shit yet
I can’t tell if it’s just cognitive bias on my part but I feel like the content and discussion has gotten even worse on Reddit since the protests.
Meanwhile here, I find most engagements thoughtful and written because people want to engage. Sure, a few assholes post stupid shit or try to be mean, but most are just trying to participate in good faith.
That‘s right. Without the protests, i probably would nit have been aware of the fediverse existence
I doubt it. Only few people left and they’ll just get a bunch of new people in to replace the lost ones. It’s just a little dent in their statistics.
Enshittification will one day kill Lemmy. Somehow.
And we’ll be elsewhere.
Lemmy is open-source software. If the project root starts doing something stupid or gets abandoned, it can just be forked by someone else and it will live on.
Idk if it will ever go away. Digg is still around.
Shit birds Ran.
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Good thing you reality deniers have no reason to be here then. Byyyeeee!
Geez, you trolls are so pathetic.
That title is a bit misleading. Reddit mods might have stopped protesting, but the news of the implosion was quite significant. The existence of Lemmy is a testament to this. I don’t think their IPO is going to be as strong as they had hoped. That financial impact is quite opposite of the victory they claim to have achieved.
Also, the posts on Reddit and the responses have declined in quality in my opinion.
the post quality sincerely feels reminiscent of when I started using reddit a decade ago, might as well be posting rage comics again. so much vile shit is making it to the front page too.
glad I finally got the kick I needed to jump ship, i’m really enjoying what I’ve seen on lemmy and hexbear
Ah, if that was what you’re after, it’s too bad you missed the wave of old memes that happened on [email protected].
oh no, I appreciate the ironic ‘wow look at this cringe old posts’, I couldn’t hack reliving 2013
So what you’re saying is spez will be richer than 80% of people instead of 90%
Actually he will be richer than way more than 90% either way
To be richer than 90% of people you need to have a net worth of $90,000 USD.
Damn. I’ve got more than that and I sure as hell don’t feel like a ten percenter.
Worldwide. So you’re competing with people sewing shoes at 1$ per hour.
That’s too high. People are employed for like $4/day basis in some places.
That makes a whole lot more sense.
That can’t possibly be true. I’m not saying you’re lying, just… holy shit I though it’d be way more than that. This is for US citizens?
The number was $1,212,000 to be in the 90th percentile in the US in 2017 according to https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2020/demo/p70br-170.pdf
But worldwide, it was indeed about $93,000. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/07/how-much-money-you-need-to-be-in-the-richest-10-percent-worldwide.html
Very interesting. That’s more in line with what I was thinking it would be for the United States. Thanks for looking that up and providing the info.
I mean, wouldn’t be too out-there. How many Americans are living paycheck to paycheck with some sort of massive debt? How many can’t afford to have any assets? How many more accrue even greater debt to either survive, or drop money they don’t have on shit they don’t need (like that latest BMW) just so they can keep up with the Joneses?
This is for all people, worldwide. North America is very rich, relatively speaking.
Ah, ok, I suppose that makes a bit more sense then.
I’ve read this before and continue to remain stunned since the cost of living is so ridiculously high in so many American cities.
On the bright side, people like him are unlikely to be happy with what they have. He’ll spend the rest of his life dreaming about the billions he ‘lost’, rather than being satisfied with the obscene amount of wealth he already has.
The question is, numbers-wise, how many of us actually left reddit?
Couple of hundred thousand maybe
They pissed off a lot of their quality submitters, who either moved somewhere else or decided the hell with it, and they’re doing other things now entirely.
When I upped stakes and left, I did indeed up my stakes. I torched all of my posts and comments, which means that, yes, all of my typical reddit bickering is lost to time now. But so is all the specialty knowledge about specific topics I’d put into posts and comments which are now gone from their platform entirely. Outside of the usual cats/porn/vidya/political bickering cycle on reddit, a large portion of what made it valuable to people was (were?) all the niche subs full of knowledgeable people posting information and answering questions about whatever the topic was. The reddit administration didn’t just piss off the power mods, it pissed off all the people contributing to those subs as well.
The existence of Lemmy is a testament to this.
Lemmy has existed before the reddit shitshow.
Possibly we should all occasionally contribute shit posts to Reddit.
I’ve been browsing Reddit logged out and haven’t seen even one thing that made me want to comment since the apps got shut down. It really does seem like the content quality has tanked.
I think I won. I found a place I like more than reddit. Maybe we won even. We all got this place right here now. It’s nice.
Maybe reddit won. Maybe they wanted to get rid of us and succeeded. Could be easier to milk the platform for shareholders after getting rid of anyone who would protest beforehand.
Maybe it doesn’t matter because neither side needs the other anymore. Both sides changed and don’t fit back together anymore.
Certainly declaring a winner in this situation is dumb.
I agree. If Reddit won, the victory was pyrrhic if anything. Their whole plan to end 3rd party app support could have been just a small road bump if they had just done it transparently and planned it with reasonably thought out timelines. They instead chose to do a whole front flip over it and get everyone mad, tanking their brand while trying to make it look like nothing happened.
Anyways, congratulations on your victory. Here’s your prize: ❤
Ex-Apollo/Reddit 10+ years here. I really can’t understand why they didn’t offer API users the ability to pay for the add-free access they were afforded by their apps (if that’s what it was supposed to be about). Did they really think that they could force people to use the dumpster-fire that is the official Reddit app? …at the cost of losing a significant, or at least active, percentage of their user base? That’s insane. I haven’t logged in to my Reddit account since and I no longer visit old.reddit.com. Appreciate going cold turkey isn’t for everyone, but … fuck it. When social media companies stop allowing you to view their content in the way you enjoy, it should tell you how valued you are by them.
It’s fairly simple: a social media platform’s value isn’t just a matter of income but also of potential income and how well it can control its users behavior. Preventing users from curating their experience creates more potential avenues for advertising.
What advertisers want are eyeballs (and user data to better their strategies). The API being open means Reddit can’t control where all the eyeballs on their platform are looking, which reduces the value of Reddit.
What advertisers want from reddit, and what will increase reddit’s valuation, is for reddit to say “We can control where 100% of our user’s eyeballs are and what they’re looking at 100% of the time”. For example, that’s why the Facebook feed straight up ignores your settings and shows you whatever it wants.
The API access could make them money but not nearly as much as as they’ll make by demonstrating to advertisers how much control over the user experience they have.
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I think Lemmy won when you came here.
I think we won Lemmy.
We lost reddit though, not the current reddit, but the one that was.
I hope we all win. I miss Reddit. There was a more diverse range of communities that matched my interests. My list is subscribed communities here is growing but some are dead.
That will grow over time and many are. I’m finding there is increasing engagement and comments on many posts and this engagement should breed more engagement.
I think all the mobile apps for lemmy becoming available helps a lot too. Even from several weeks ago the experience is way way better.
Also all of the major instabilities I saw at first are getting worked out very fast
I’m seeing the increasing engagement too
great comment
I don’t need to win or anything I gave up on Reddit. What’s funny is that I donate to Lemmy and never ever bought Reddit premium.
Certainly declaring a winner in this situation is dumb.
It’s not dumb. It’s the canary in the coal mine. It’s showing that people don’t actually give a shit and will continually subject themselves to more and more abuse rather than simply moving to a new platform.
And it’s showing this to other corporations who continue to enshittify the internet.
Imo it is dumb that media always frames anything happening like a sports event. This binary win or lose narrative rarely if ever captures the complexity of a situation. It’s the strongest in the US where sensationalism is striving to become an art form due to the two party system. When there are only two competing sites politics can quickly feel like a sports event. And democracy dies to lack of actual discussion and lack of options.
At least personally i have not been on reddit for more than 10 minutes total since the middle of June. I am but one person, but i dont see how they can declare themselves the winners.
They can declare whatever they want. The ex users won’t hear or rebut.
They think that the people who are left are more valuable than we were. At least in terms of data collection and ad views, they are probably right.
In the long run, chasing away the power users will probably harm the platform, but it’s not immediately clear.
I haven’t been back at all.
I still check in on niche reddits but my use dropped by like 95%. Used to reddit for like an hour before bed every single night. Been reading books before bed more since the API changed and it’s been super nice!
Yep same here! Still check reddit for certain things but dropped it significantly and started reading again.
I still go to two niche subreddits. And while there go to the country sub for a glance. But even there things have slowed down.
The reddit protest caused thousands of power users and some of the best content creators to leave the site.
The reddit protest caused lemmy to grow exponentially for weeks on end.
The reddit protest caused well known third party app developers to leave reddit and retool for lemmy.
Next time reddit fucks up, and it will, when everyone is over there circlejerking about “well are there any good reddit alternatives?”
The answer will be “there is now, and it’s called lemmy.” And lemmy will again grow exponentially.
Hardly seems like a win, long term. Sure, reddit beat the remaining mod hold outs. They didn’t beat us.
They were always going to win. It’s their platform. They can do whatever they want. But… They lost my attention and paid subscription. I now only go to Reddit when I’m looking for something I can’t find elsewhere. It used to be my favorite platform.
Reddit’s main advantage is the historic number of contents and knowledge posted by their users.
It will take decades for this advantage to shift, if even possible, to similar type like Lemmy or other platforms.
To be honest I didn’t really care about the API thing because I used the web interface anyway. But the fact that they had this outrage from users and their answer was “LOL who cares” made me leave.
Reddit was always going to win that battle. But the fact that Lemmy now has a much larger user base (largely populated by many reddit OGs) is telling. At the very least, the online landscape changed. I for one am happy to be on a new platform away from the old corporate overlords.
Nah, I won. We won. We found better platforms like Lemmy, Mastodon, and KBin.
I’m not going back to reddit, there’s simply no need.
If Reddit won, why have Lemmy and Kbin’s userbases grown so steeply since June? Why has the quality of Reddit’s content plummeted terribly? Why is /r/place just one endless ocean of “fuck spez”?
Reddit only “won” in the same way that Florida “won” against illegal immigrants and is now facing a massive workforce shortage in essential industries.
Reddit may not be dead yet, but it’s mortally wounded already. It’s bleeding out and will be dead in every way that matters soon.
Unfortunately, steeply here doesn’t really capture the size disparity between Lemmy and Reddit. Lemmy has 60k active monthly users. Reddit has 450 million active monthly users. We have a looong way to go before we can really compete. But we just have to keep pushing. Now that we exist and have a sustainable userbase, the next time Reddit does something idiotic we’ll be here to attract disgruntled users. Something good that we can be doing is showing up to the threads on Reddit about the terrible things Reddit does and advertising Lemmy to people.
I don’t think a competition is necessary. I’m more than happy if this place is better than reddit was, even if it never becomes that big. It’s the content and the community what makes it good for me, not the ammount of users.
Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that Lemmy is getting bugger than Reddit. I just wanted to point out that Reddit is bleeding a lot of users. And judging by how Reddit’s post quality has dropped, it’s bleeding the best ones.
To emphasize this discrepancy, based on these numbers, if one tenth of one percent of reddit’s monthly active users switched to lemmy, that would represent more than 600% growth in the lemmy userbase. So yeah. Sharp growth here isn’t necessarily a sharp decline there.
But if the tiny minority that leaves is the same group that’s willing to spend dozens of hours a week for free keeping the site free of spam and hate and keeping forums on topic, that has a pretty outsized impact on the quality of the site moving forward. So the small number isn’t to say that reddit wasn’t hurt by the exodus. It’s just to say that lemmy growth numbers aren’t a good indicator of that impact.
the thing is we need to hit the critical mass where there’s enough posts and comments that it’s not dead and there’s a reason to come back at least daily. I’d say lemmy just hit that point for me very recently and I imagine that if I still had a reddit account I’d be 50/50. I expect exponential growth from here on out, with more users enabling more people to want to join and that further enhances the system
I’d rather we did not complete, thanks. I don’t want 450 million people running riot posting right wing extremist crap.
Stop pushing, the server gonna explode 💀
We lost like 15k active users (of not even 140k) over the last couple weeks alone. I wouldn’t call that steeply grown…
Again, I’m not comoparing Lemmy to Reddit. I myself am on Kbin.
Same. And those are the combined Lemmy & kbin numbers.
Why are you trying so hard to miss my point? Either that or I really suck at communication.
You are. I literally counter argue your point that Reddit “lost”. It’s not mortally wounded either. A tiny portion moved away to something like the various fediverse platforms, a large portion of that already left again and is likely back on Reddit, if they even fully left in the first place. So please stop the mental gymnastics.
It’s not mental gymnastics, but fine. I won’t beleaguer the point. What about the rest of my comment?
Spez used a monkey paw, reddit’s gonna last forever just getting more and more useless.
They’ve grown considerably, because previously there was almost nothing.
If the posts here are any indication, these users never stopped going to Reddit anyway.
Meanwhile the number of users these platforms have gained is barely a drop in the bucket compared to the (likely) millions of new users that just moved over to their first-party app for further exploitation for data-mining and ads.
Be that as it may, the quality of Reddit’s content has dropped significantly. The people who left were the heart and soul of the platform. And the ones who didn’t leave are still pissed. Bluntly, the site’s gone to shit. It will not recover.
Will it shut down? Probably not, but that’s why I said “in every way that matters”. Digg hasn’t shut down either, even after all these years, but it has become completely irrelevant. Just give Reddit time to bleed out and it will be the same.
Such a small amount of users on Reddit submit links or comment. The thing that they “won” was splitting a portion of their community of power users who maintain and create the content on their site from the masses who simply consume and doom scroll the main page. I am happy with the type of discussion that is happening on Lemmy, I don’t need a post to have 7000 upvotes or a comment to have 1500 votes and a shit load of coins attached to it to make it valuable or interesting.
Reddit did way worse than losing and worse than dying directly.
Reddit is dead inside and that’s all that matters to me.
The few times I’ve been back since the initial protest I’ve noticed content quality on r/all is considerably worse.
It isn’t dead, but Digg didn’t die overnight either. Reddit is absolutely dying.
Digg*
I was part of the Digg exodus to Reddit, and now I’m here.
Fixed. Thanks! That’s what I get for typing on mobile.
When I’ve checked the front page it’s like 15 year humor has taken over. R/unexpected top post was some dumb “NSFW” gif with a breakup and a girl saying how she loved a dude and him saying she didn’t give him pussy, "🤦so cringe. All my subs were borked, not worth the effort to rebuild, I’d rather build new in lemmy.
They’re 100% botting to keep it “alive” but it’s a facade. Happy to watch it go up.
Reddit might have won, but i definitely did too. It made me finally leave Reddit and got me here. And who knows, perhaps one day Reddit will drown in its enshittification enough for it to vanish into nothing but the great history of the internet. Then, at last, we will still be here.
Tanked reputation, loyal user base gone like the window, no 3rd party support what so ever and the face of the company making a total ass out of himself. Yeah sure, if you call that a ‘win’
They still have a lot of traffic. So yeah, they did win.
But you know who else won? The Fediverse. This place feels really active now and has the added benefit of feeling just a bit more wholesome.
And I’m 100% okay with that, my goal in going here wasn’t for reddit to die, it was to have an alternative to reddit. And it’s fucking amazing, I’ve almost completely stopped using Reddit thanks to this amazing place. I only use reddit now for niche subs like my ebikes sub.
Try !micromobility (c/micromobility ?)
Some more niche communities are sorta combined with other ones, but still a reasonable replacement imo.
Winning should not be judged within the span of a single month. Much of Reddit’s power users left, meaning the minority that posts the most content was decimated. Reddit will still have lots of traffic but it means they will decline to something where memes are circulated instead of made, like 9gag. That’s not winning by a lot of metrics.
Between the loss of original content and the genuinely obscure/questionable shit now dominating r/all, I’m pretty sure they’ve backfilled their DAU losses with bots.
I’d go one step further and allege it’s a deliberate scheme, because if repost and content bots are running it’s because they have unhindered access to API calls, and that comes from admin. Also, Reddit can actually analyze their traffic and know far better than we can what is likely human and what is likely bot, and use that to try to better hide the authorized bot traffic.
So yeah, they may well have traffic, but I would put money on some unknown yet significant portion of that traffic not being human, as a deliberate strategy to retain advertisers.
Agreed, and Rome wasn’t built in a day. Any more crises with any of the major social networks will just continue to build this place up more. I think it’s too big now to fade into obscurity and is just going to continue to grow, even if it’s not as large as the mainstream stuff.
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I really hope Lemmy and the fediverse achieves a certain critical mass, to have enough users for a nice active community. Im perfectly fine for reddit to stay number one though, to attract all the toxic idiots and the cesspool they create in their wake.
I notice no mention of Lemmy userbase expansion…
