transcript
A picture of the Ben Affleck Smoking meme, with the caption “Me seeing people on reddit telling other people to go to lemmy.world”
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This
Thank you for the gold kind stranger
Boop
Heckin
General NPC replies
“Lemmy is great, you can choose whatever instance you want! But fuck you if you choose that one.”
No, don’t recommend that one. I don’t care if you’re on LW, its just not a great idea to recommend it to newcomers.
I was forced to go to Lemmy after the post-inauguration bloodbath, but Ive liked it a lot, more than Reddit in many ways. I was getting really tired of the bots, puns, Russian Propganda, novelty accounts, TROLLS, etc.
OTOH, I feel like I can speak much more freely on Lemmy. Even before I got permabanned, Reddits Free Speech mission had become non-existent.
The downside of Lemmy is that some of my favorite subs don’t have an equivalent on Lemmy. For instance, the Reddit guitar subs are very active, but the few Lemmy guitar forums are nearly empty, with posts that are days, weeks, months, and even years, apart. I tried Googling “Lemmy Guitar” for ideas, and literally every link was about Motorhead.
So I welcome more quality Reddit immigrants, as long as all the Trolls stay over there.
Help build the guitar community, tell the people on reddit to come here instead. I will do the same.
I can’t, I’m permabanned. I tried getting around it several times, with new account names, but each one lasted a shorter and shorter time, as the algorithm honed in on me. My first alt lasted a few weeks, my last one was caught within an hour.
I do like the idea of building the Guitar community here at Lemmy, I’m just not familiar enough with the system to know how to do that. Do we start a new forum, or take over an existing one? Do we have just one and put EVERYTHING in there, or do we split it up between various subjects - general, lessons, performances, gear, amps, etc.?
How’d you manage to get banned?
First post on Lemmy! and oh my word… never seen such an eclectic mix of flavours of people, positions and politics in a long time.
This decentralised thing could actually be a good thing: pulls people away from bubbles and echo chambers!
Just remember to play nice :)
Welcome!
Welcome!
i said it before but lemmy hates new users
I don’t hate new users. Just, please recommend another instance to newcomers.
lemmy.world does not allow the use of vpn to post. vpn is basic internet hygiene. do not go to lemmy.world if you care about that, our you will not be able to post.
you can join any federated instance instead.
vpn is basic internet hygiene
according to vpn companies
What do you want them to do? Select an instance at random, to spread them out?
Yeah, this is just stupid. I wish a significant amount of redditors would go to lemmy.world
I mean, what do you want to tell them to join? Something called “mander.xyz”? “sopuli.xyz”? Maybe something like sh.itjust.works, jlai.lu or yall.theatl.social? I’d feel awkward enough telling them to join “Lemmy” then linking to lemm.ee. Sending them to lemmy.ml would just be cruel.
I picked lemmy.world because it sounded the least sus
Can we recommend another generic instance? .world has a few problems plaguing it right now.
You’re on one of them already, IMO
The other one I have in mind is mine. Lemmy.zip even DM a starter guide after sign up.
I registered with blahaj first but I couldn’t. Log in after a couple of months and never found a solution.
I came to Lemmy on my own but felt forced I to .World.
There are other generalist or niche instances beyond .world
a generic instance is what most users need to actually make the move, if they like it or understand it better later they might choose a different insurance later, if not who cares they can still interact with others.
The cold truth is that to onboard people in greater numbers you need a default instance recommendation. You just do. You absolutely cannot ask potential new users (many of which will - hopefully - be casual and not so tech savvy) to sit down and undertake a multi hour research project into finding an appropriate small instance for them. You cannot reasonably expect people to look into uptime, funding and defederation lists to make an informed decision about where to register. You just need them through the door and posting and commenting and voting.
Making a new account somewhere else is super easy and painless once they’re already here. We just need to get them here.
Just tell them to go to your favourite instance. Easy.
It’s too bad there isn’t a way to just have one location for everyone to create an account, like a lemmy.com, and then the last step during account creationg is to select your preferred instance for the account, maybe from like a drop down list that has a small blurb about the rules and expectations for that instance and a list of top 10 hosted communities, and maybe even a random choice option, and then you can go back to that main area to switch your instance later if need be.
When I first found Lemmy, it was through https://join-lemmy.org/ which is similar to what you are describing.
Though it recommended me to join lemmy.ml, and apparently it’s a controversial one, so I don’t know if that worked out well…
That’s how I got in! Lemm.ee does just fine.
But yea, perhaps we could chat to the heads of lemmy.world to maybe pin an announcement to help other instances and help decentralisation. I wouldn’t be surprised if they would agree to do that for the greater good.
I think historical data supports they wouldnt agree to stuff for the greater good, but idr that well so I could be wrong
Yeah you left out the hours of research to figure out what each instance is actually about and the years of abuse and power trips that have occured under different leadership, and also the dropdown includes defederated instances.
I started on blahaj, but they are NOT an inclusive and healthy LGBTQ community so I had to move but I didn’t want to go through all the effort again so I joined .world
If you thought .world is more LGBTQ friendly than Blahaj you must be smoking the good stuff.
Why don’t you stay on .ml if that’s what your account exists for?
It seems disingenuous to me not to use your .ml account
Nah, I support Ukraine’s independence and I blocked .ml a long time ago.
Removed by mod
Also Ada is a tankie
🤣
If Ada is a “tankie,” then everyone is a “tankie,” and since you say that “tankies” are fascists, then everyone is a fascist.
Why has she been hosting “196” A.K.A. “(also fuck tankies)” communities for the last two years? Deeply unserious.
Removed by mod
Lemm.ee is the default instance new users should use.
Because they haven’t defereated from the tankies yet?
This is why research is important
That would expose new users to Hexbear, and I don’t think new users would stay long after accidentally provoking them with wrongthink and getting spammed with pig testicle pics and insults. That was my experience when I first joined Lemmy and it wasn’t pleasant. Lemm.ee’s hands-off approach to defederation can be both a blessing and a curse, and I’m not sure it’d be best for new users to be exposed to some of the worst of Lemmy.
As long as they have more than two brain cells to click together. If they can’t get past the tiny technical barrier to entry then they can go somewhere else.
What you’re saying is “reddit is fine, it can stay the front page of the internet, I don’t mind”
Stop making good the enemy of perfect!
Yeah, anything to get them from reddit is good.
Plus, once they get a feel for Lemmy and the wider fediverse, they can then migrate their account elsewhere.
Some of them maybe, but a lot are super toxic and I just hope they stay on reddit and make each other suffer rather than the good ppl on lemmy.
That’s a moderation issue, and if we can’t handle it here, Lemmy is doomed regardless.
No, it’s not. Lemmy is immortal.
Anywhere but:
- lemmy[.]ml
- lemmygrad[.]ml
- lemmy[.]world
- he xbea r[.]net
I hate the communists on this platform developed by communists
I don’t hate communists. The reasons I don’t recommend those instances are:
lemmy[.]ml - Censorship of pro-ukraine posts and comments
lemmygrad - see above; also defederated a lot.
lemmy[.]world - too big, has a lot of toxic people, some moderation issues
hex - defederated from most of the mainstream fediverse.Supporting nazi governments is frowned upon, yes
Do you honestly agree with the idea that Ukraine was a nazi country?
Was? No, the nazis are still in charge. I said government, don’t pull that shit where you make no distinction between the people and their jailers. Ukrainians? Probably mostly cool, haven’t met them. Their government? Absolutely nazis, absolutely put in place by us to do nazis shit.
I had a whole thing written about Operation GLADIO and America’s almost century-long history of doing exactly this all over the world, how the word “Tankie” comes from the time the Soviet Union stopped them from doing it to Hungary in 1956, but then I remembered a picture is worth a thousand words. Here’s several pictures:
That’s a picture of Stephan Bandera by the way, head of the OUN-B organization which participated in the Holocaust. Here he is in his in his spiffy military uniform:
Eh, times change, right? It’s not as if any recent high ranking government officials have been see-
Ah. Hm.
Well, it’s not like they’re doing hitler youth shit, right?
God damn, what the hell is going on? Is there some kind of documented, easy-to follow trail of obvious causality that I can use to make sense of this??
Of course there is, and it’s only a minute and a half long!
Okay, joking is done. Real talk, do you honestly believe the obviously bullshit narrative that Ukraine isn’t a country whose people live under the Nazi boot?
By nazi country, I meant ruled by nazis. Sorry if that was unclear.
Even if Ukraine has a “nazi problem” russia’s invasion is nothing but imperialism.
hex - defederated from most of the mainstream fediverse.
This is exactly why you should tell people leaving reddit to check it out.
No thanks, people like that make reddit a miserable experience. Its the same here.
“boo hoo people shit on me for being reactionary”
That is all I get from this comment without further elaboration.
i’m not getting anything from your comment either, I don’t even know what you are talking about. reactionary? people shit on me?
It’s just a miserable reading experience even when I don’t interact. Hopefully blocking certain instances helps, but what makes me wary is that blocking certain people for example seems to hide the whole threads if someone in the thread is blocked.
Some people don’t come here to talk politics.
There are some people who may just use reddit for non-political stuff, like crafts, gaming and news from their country. Most of that stuff is on lemmy.world.We do all that too, we’re just cooler. We have DIY comms, anime comms, I run the gaming discord where we mostly just chill and play Foxhole ARMA and project zomboid.
My point is that everything is political and for people that want a nice cozy space that is vigilantly purged of reactionaries and bigots it’s a breath of fresh air from the reddit environment that carries over to a lot of the big “default” - as you call them - instances.
Shit half the posts on hexbear are silly jokes, weird special interest stuff, personal projects, or random bean posting. We are just very very militant and fairly unified when topics of politics come up and it has roots in irreverent commie shitposting so that will always be there.
hexbear does have a lot of non-political comms, but some of the more niche ones are on .world. I think .world is still far better than
Those people can literally go back to reddit and have their use experience be 100% identical
Not really. Reddit has gotten really shitty. Not just the community, the actual platform itself.
Hexbear.net defederated because of a domain problem that’s since been fixed
Although I suspect the “censorship of pro-ukraine posts and comments” is just as much present there as it is in lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml, and the main reason for the “censorship” is racism
No, some instances block hex.
Also, .ml’s modlog shows a clear pro-russia bias. People should oppose the U.S’s imperialism, but supporting russia (even critically) isn’t the answer. I feel like hexbear has a more diverse range of views compared to .ml or grad though.
Spesifying that you shouldn’t support Russia even critically shows that you don’t understand the meaning of “critically”
Who benefits from the extension of the conflict? Who manufactures the soon-to-be expired warheads and ammunition sold to Ukraine?
US wouldn’t cease the the siege of Iraq and Afganistan before they gained the control of the whole governing body of the country and then extending the occupation for a decade (before abandoning the puppet government to fend for itself)
If Russia ceased all operations today keeping all the area they gained throughout this war, they would have still done less harm to Ukraine than US has done in any of its conflicts
“Critical support” means support for the option that causes the least humanitarian damage
Also, .ml’s modlog shows a clear pro-russia bias. People should oppose the U.S’s imperialism, but supporting russia (even critically) isn’t the answer
Have you considered that reality supports Russia’s justifications for intervening in Ukraine
And what are those justifications?
What a weird take. Its not promoted as an app for communists even if its made by them. Decentralized should mean that noone can enforce it to be communist.
I think they meant that no one should be surprised that there are communists on a platform created by communists.
I’m not sure anyone in this thread has claimed that they are surprised.
No, decentralized means the communists won’t get banned from your feed unless you block them yourself
Same point, different wording.
it’s not, you can mold the lemmy you experience perfectly to your liking, you just have to moderate it yourself, just don’t be surprised when you come across communists everywhere
Yes its the same point, you just misread my comment.
Now explain why to the masses.
- tankies
- tankies
- centralisation
- tankies
tankies => historical revisionism and genocide denial.
I don’t really care if they are authoritarian communists, I care that they deny or try to embellish massive human rights absuses and human suffering.
I mean I don’t care if they’re communists but the authoritarian bit is a no for me.
Authoritarian anything; within reason - is generally a bad thing. Ie communism, capitalism, and all spectrums in between :)
I mean yeah that was my point lol
To expand:
On .ml, you’ll likely end up being banned for “bigotry” if you dare criticize certain authoritarian regimes. The mods and admins cannot handle any sort of dissent, so censorship is quite heavy there. You’ll even get banned from unrelated communities. It’s the least toxic of the “Big Three” tankie instances, but still not a great place to be. There’s also the issue of overcentralization since it’s such a large instance, as getting an unwarranted ban can block off access to a good chunk of communities.
Grad is .ml but more extremist. They’re widely defederated for good reason, as their users are pretty horrible to anyone they consider a shitlib. I can’t say much about them from personal experience as they’ve been defederated with my instance for as long as I’ve been here, but many have alts on .ml where they do engage in shitty behaviour.
Hexbear is by far the worst. Take grad, and turn the hostility up to 11. If you say the wrong thing, it may end up posted in their “dunk tank” where they’ll then proceed to harass you as a group for days or longer, even taking it to DMs. They do not federate with other instances to participate in good faith, they federate in order to push their agenda and “dismantle Western propaganda”. And by that, they actually mean flooding threads with oversized emotes and graphic pictures of pigs shitting on their own testicles when they decide to brigade. They’re also widely defederated for good reason, and most threads involving defederating with them have plenty of examples of their awful conduct outside of their instance. Many have alts on other instances to bypass said defederation though.
Sounds about right.
abbout righht indeed
Because most Americans can’t handle any other worldview and have no identity beyond mindless nationalism.
Tankies simply partake in a different nationalism: Russian or Chinese
Not everyone against tankies are American or even from the West. You ARE aware Lemmy has many worldwide users, right?
Lmao spend one minute on meanehileongrad and say that again.
lol 🤡
What the heck does this have to do with choosing a social media platform, comrade?
Facts
“I hate centralization, we should do less centralization”
posts a list of instances to avoid, 3/4 of which are actually much smaller in active users than his own, presumably just all instances he politically disagrees with
Not really.
- lemmy[.]ml - Censorship of pro-ukraine posts
- lemmygrad - see above; also defederated a lot.
- lemmy[.]world - too big, has a lot of toxic people, some moderation issues
- hex - defederated from most of the mainstream fediverse.
so that’s 3/4 that you’re saying to avoid because you personally have deemed their moderation policies objectively inferior (and judging by 1 and 2 you probably think the same about hexbear?)
sounds like they’re just instances you politically disagree with, one of which does happen to also be massive. I’m not saying redditors should come to those 4 instances, they mostly shouldn’t (grad and hexbear don’t want most of them, .ml has been trying to not be “the default instance” since forever, and world is a shithole and already massive/centralizing), but your choice of list was transparently more political than it was about centralization, why not just be honest about that?
Or are you going to pull the “moderation policies are (or should be) objective and apolitical” canard?
I never said it was about centralisation, it was about instances being recommended to newcomers. Sorry if that was unclear.
I don’t know if you realise this but we can actually see the titles of posts we’re commenting on.
The comment I was replying to said “Don’t make perfect the enemy of good!”, likely referring to getting users onto the fediverse from sites like reddit. I think recommending almost any instance but those ones is a good idea to newcomers.
Also, just because the title references centralisation, the biggest problem plaguing LW, doesn’t mean there are other reasons to avoid it.
Don’t forget:
-
vegantheoryclub [.] org
-
tankies
wait, what?
They love simping for the CCP and Putin.
-
Here fucking here. 3 are blatantly full of Nazis and one is just Reddit.
So like the big servers that everyone’s on, gotcha
Pretty much yeah. Spreading stuff out so there is no single point of failure is a good thing.
I don’t see the issue with recommending a generic instance, if your intend is to convert the generic user. It certainly is a better experience than saying ‘ok, so choose what you like from this list of instances’ and they don’t even know the implications or what that means.
The overcomplication of Lemmy is an issue, and this behavior tries to avoid that.
Recommending generic instances is good, but please don’t recommend that generic instance.
Eh why not, might mellow them out a little
A lot of people start off on a major instance, then after finding and vibing with another instance, can move to that.
There’s tons of tools and things that allow for transfer of subscriptions and everything else so changing instances isn’t a big deal.
The important thing is to get them on Lemmy first.
Agreed
I started on world and quickly began hopping.
joined on world, couldnt see piracy and the hopping began
Thank you for spreading!
The open-source nature of Lemmy would enable great migration tools.
The devs seem opposed to letting users migrate accounts though.
The issue for moving comms has been open since last year.I haven’t looked at the Lemmy codebase but here’s my thoughts on why they don’t “just” fix this.
Unless the database is designed for easy migration from it can be a very large task to modify the database layout, as you nearly have to refactor everything.
One way to solve this is that all posts/comments/votes uses an UUID as primary key instead of auto-incrementing IDs.
Hi, so moving in AP (ActivityPub) doesn’t really work like that.
Essentially, every action (like, follow, create etc) is an
activity, “moving” something sends a “move” activity to every follower of an actor (group, user etc), which will make them follow the new account.So moving a community is really just making everyone unsubscribe from the old on, and subscribe to the new one, set the old one as read only, and setup a redirect (“This community has moved to !newcomm@instance”). The old comm will stay, and it can be browsed.
Take a look at “nomadic identity” though, its a bit more similar to what you are talking about.
Mod actions don’t even federate properly yet, you have to have a local account to mod properly. And post pinning only works when the stars align. With all those basic features having issues, comm migration is nowhere near the top of the priority list.
I guess so, but I really think we should recommend another instance this time around.
What if you recommended a smaller instance and they get hugged to death and it ruins the experience for everyone else on that instance?
Though, to be fair, world is already pretty hammered
Hasn’t happened yet when I did that with Lemmy.cafe.
The small instances can take in 10s of thousands of users before being strained.
Yep, I wouldn’t recommend tiny ones, the medium sized ones seem to be able to scale enough.
You can always throw them into the deep end and tell them to check out hexbear
I don’t really get how to get into that. How do you find instances with more than 10 people on them ? Plus like you said, I have to make a new account for every instance which is super annoying
You can use https://fedidb.org/software/lemmy to find the smollest ones.
You don’t need an account for every instance. For example, I am on lemm.ee, you are on lemmy.world, but I can reply to your comment.
Every instance shares the same content.
See I’m confused at this. I cannot login on lemm.ee. not sure what I’m doing wrong.
Think of it like email, you can send emails to anyone on any email provider, but you can’t login to gmail with your outlook info.
