“We need to sex up your wardrobe. What do you mean you’re not comfortable wearing that? Oh honey, don’t be such a prude, all the girls are doing it and you want to be successful don’t you? No one’s going to watch someone that dresses like their grandma.”
I get sick and tired of so called leftists equating exploitation to sexual liberation.
That’s not prudish that is reasonable. Prudishness is when people think less of people who enjoy sexualising themselves or demand that perfectly harmless behaviours be ‘kept behind closed doors’ and so on.
Edit: to be concrete if you find sex as a hobby more controversial than carpentry you might want to examine why. Or if you complain about ‘public displays of affection’ but think that people whinging about punks playing street music are frustrating boomers maybe you’re confusing your own preferences with moral truths.
But sexual liberation is for everyone, including people that want as little sex as possible. It’s about a world where we respect each other, and recognise that what people do or don’t do doesn’t suddenly become a huge fucking deal because it relates to sex and sexuality. Wanting to avoid sexual attention, or not caring one way or the other, is just as valid as wanting to center your whole damn life about it.
We’re all just food for worms.
Edit: to be concrete if you find sex as a hobby more controversial than carpentry you might want to examine why.
It’s bullshit really. It’s perfectly fine and normal for my neighbours to wake me up a 3 in the morning with their hobby, but if I take out my hammer and nails to finish off that chair, suddenly I’m the bad guy!
Noise pollution ordinances are a fascist conspiricy to keep the shift-working chainsaw sculptor down.
Better struggle session setup than the 3am dirtbikes tbh.
Not online enough to be familiar with that one
Basically what it sounds like, a small group of people were very determined that there was nothing wrong with hooning on dirtbikes at 3 in the morning in a residential area. I just remember that one because I’m pretty sure I started it?
My problem is that, in my city, dirt bike riders often ride on the sidewalk, or completely ignore when there’s a red light on a crosswalk.
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Yo that’s a tad neurotic. Just chill.
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Kill the redditer inside you
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I would have probably compared sex as a hobby to, like, D&D or something. Maybe tennis. In the sense that sex you’re usually doing with other people, not to other people, as it could be argued you do carpentry to wood.
So I don’t think sex (usually) objectifies human bodies in the same way carpentry objectifies wood. I straight up don’t think that’s (usually) true.
Furthermore, (most) sex doesn’t involve urine and blood, so I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at here. Now, sure, sex can be dangerous, you gotta watch out for pregnancy and STD’s, but then, carpentry can also be dangerous, saws cut fingers off sometimes, you know?
Finally, I’m pretty sure most hobby carpenters aren’t making houses. And most hobby sex-havers are specifically avoiding pregnancy, on purpose, because they’re doing sex for fun rather than procreation.
Basically, I think you’re wrong about sex. I feel, from your comment, your hatred of sex, that comes through loud and clear, and I have no interest in trying to convince you out of that hatred. It’s cool, not everyone has to be into sex, that’s totally fine. But your reasons for thinking sex as a hobby is worse than other hobbies are not real reasons.
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posdtive feelings I have when using others as a sexual object for my personal pleasure
If sex were not about physical objectification, it would not be a physical act. This is not a debate.
What the fuck. In your mind every single sexual encounter is all participants using each other as objects for personal pleasure? That has not been my experience, and my guess is it isn’t the experience of most people who have sex. Sex should be mutually pleasurable and is something you do collaboratively with other people. It’s not getting your own pleasure regardless of how your partner(s) feel, it’s everyone involved working together to try and make the experience good for everyone.
Do you think every physical act is about objectification? When I, say, play tennis with someone, are we objectifying each other then too? What about when I cuddle with my partner? When we both go in for a hug because we want to experience that physical closeness? Is that objectification? Am I “using him” every time I hug my partner?
Also, I don’t hate your position on sex, I’m being sincere when I say you don’t have to like it or engage with it, ever, for any reason. That’s fine, there’s really no issue there. All I’m saying is that some people (me included) like sex, and it’s a little odd to be told I’m using my partner as an object every time we get intimate. That’s really weird, and not at all what’s happening.
Because sex objectifies human bodies while carpentry objectifies trees.
At that point, we should reexamine the meaning and significance of objectification
Really don’t comment on people’s appearance unless its positive (and not positive in the sense of “I’m helping them!”, like genuine… idk), and even then never with strangers.
I saw a guy with a cool mohawk the other day and I said “nice hair” and he looked like he thought I was insulting him.
Unfortunately the ironic compliment has destroyed a generation of people’s ability to take any compliments
Which is why i always respond to compliments with “Thanks, it has pockets!”
The Cargo Mohawk
The 90s are so back
I think when it comes to critical comments the “can it be fixed in 10 seconds” rule is great.
Someone has something on their face? Tell them they can fix it.
They look tired? They can’t help that shut up.
I think a big part is trust of the person saying it. Plenty of people have appreciated it when I’ve notified them of a make-up gaff (that they were previously unaware of). (also I usually look slightly concerned for them)
I agree, some people seem to think that everyone has the same idea of what looks good.
Only comments I ever make on people’s appearance are if they’ve clearly put thought and effort into something about their outfit and it may brighten their day to hear those choices validated. And it’s gotta be something innocuous that can’t come off as sexualizing them like, “love those spider earrings” or “the birds on that dress are great”. Basically, validating the choices and efforts someone’s made about their outfit, never anything about their actual body because 1. that’s very invasive and unwanted and 2. there is only a very small degree to which people have any control over their bodies’ appearances.
It’s weird but I’ve gotten compliments from people, mostly women, on my body, out of nowhere, and it’s just come across as creepy. It would have been much appreciated if we were together or had some established relationship but these are complete strangers commenting on how nice my eyes or arms or facial structure is and I’m just like “get away get away get away”
But someone commenting that they like my death to fascism shirt, or some band shirt? That’s totally fine.
It’s really just acephobia.
Leftist and even specifically queer spaces struggle enough with allonormativity as is, but these kinds of takes (calling people prudes for not wanting to sexualize themselves) are just explicitly acephobic, whether they intend to be or not.
God, thank you for this. My partner and I are both ace and we get called prudes a lot for being repulsed by a sex scene in a movie or a dirty joke or something. “Grow up, you’re not 11”. BUH.
Glad I could provide that validation!
I’m a-spec (specifically demi) myself, but I don’t talk about it a whole lot.
The older i get the more i appreciate people checking in before discussing sex, or mybody, or actually just dont talk to me if youre a sexpositive loser enthusiast.
I will be wearing jeans and a tshirt, don’t tell me I won’t be sexualised for that anyway.
solidarity.
This might cause a struggle
I hope not, it’s an entirely reasonable take.
I made this post because of this recent post https://hexbear.net/post/4904490 which complains about how “prudish” and “puritan” we are.
I usually don’t do this but we have been getting an influx of people obsessing over the “loneliness epidemic” stuff and it’s starting to bother me.
I’ve noticed that a bunch of dudes with “problematic” opinions all joined around a month ago. And all of them seem to be determined to make this “their space” instead of accommodating their attitudes to match the space.
As a cis(?) white dude, it’s basically what we’ve been taught subconsciously by society, that you need to “make your mark” on a space. Thankfully, this is one of the best places on the internet to call out that sort of behaviour.
Where are they coming from???
My conspiracy brain says
, but it’s probably just coincidence and me not understanding the linear passage of time very well. I say “a month ago” but that could really mean anywhere from 3 weeks ago to 3 months ago.Probably half and half. Reddit and the other Lemmys suck, so it wouldn’t surprise me that people gravitate to us because we are so large.
Probably a bump to do with re-federation.
It’s shame they’re around while we lost most of the trans bsky user’s that jumped here when bsky was looking dog shit.
Consider that many comrades on here periodically recycle their accounts for opsec reasons.
That wouldn’t result in a net gain of new users though, just replacing old users with new ones.
We don’t know how many users are here, only how many accounts are here
Folks don’t realize how good we have it here. We purposely avoid a lot of sexualized comments and hornyposting. Mods try to be on top of things. And for opsec reasons we avoid posting people’s faces. Reddit was so fucking terrible with the comments, the chasers, the “my ladies”. Leftist circles already have the terrible reputation of men like Barack Obama using their booklist as a way to pick up girls. People treat the DSA as a dating service. One of the OG admins here had to resign for accusations of dming inappropriately with a person in discord.
That shit causes a lot more trouble online than what it’s worth.
first pronouns OP on that thread has is they/them, comrade
don’t disagree with your point, and it’s annoying when people (deliberately, imo) misunderstand the volcel bit, but we don’t have to misgender those doing it
Sorry about that, I changed it to be less gendered.
oh god no. that post sucks ass.
rant, CW: talking about porn and kink, specifically choking
i’ve noticed this rhetoric, that porn addiction isn’t a thing, multiple times here lately. i don’t quite get it, but it seems like they’re trying to excuse porn consumption as, likee something that doesn’t impact anything? which seems very incorrect to me. as someone in bdsm spaces (insert joke about ace ppl being rly into kink here), we’ve noticed an increase in hardcore acts being normalized in vanilla spaces. this coincides with them being normalized more in porn. the most obvious one is choking. breath play is really fucking dangerous and requires clear consent, but since it’s normalized in porn (where consent can HOPEFULLY be discussed off camera), it becomes normalized in vanilla, where consent rules are NOT really heavily used.
and you can argue this is an issue with most cishet ppl, “normal sexually liberated people” as said in the post, not understanding consent, but acting like porn had no influence on this trend is craaazy. and acting like people are evangelical freaks for being concerned about the normalization of hardcore sexual acts through porn makes me s upset
also acting like it’s not a real addiction people deal with is super invalidating. obviously anything can be addictive.
i really hope this doesn’t become a trend, since this is the only like, site i can use that isn’t overly horny and exploitative all the fucking time
i’ve noticed this rhetoric, that porn addiction isn’t a thing, multiple times here lately. i don’t quite get it, but it seems like they’re trying to excuse porn consumption as, likee something that doesn’t impact anything?
It’s very suspicious rhetoric, it’s both “no problem at all” but also it is a huge problem that people are worried it might be a problem? So the people concerned there might be a problem are the real problem. Which sounds very “status quo warrior” to me. I’ve heard that sort of “raising concerns about an issue is the real issue” thing too many times to count.
they also label the only people who could possibly be concerned about it as evangelicals. from what i’ve seen, the reason evangelicals love the idea of a porn ban is to ban “corrupting” influences that can be labelled as porn, namely LGBT stuff. it certainly isn’t because they think it’s exploitative of the sex workers, lol
so yea i agree, deeply suspicious
It’s one of those topics that people get way too defensive about. I think a lot of people who consume porn don’t want to think of themselves as bad people for doing so, so when they hear “porn is potentially harmful” they think “you’re a bad person for watching porn” and shut down and refuse to engage.
I literally draw the stuff for a living, and I can absolutely see the issues with the industry (granted, real people is obviously quite different from drawings, but the art side of porn and the fetish community have their own host of issues that people never seem to want to address.)
I don’t want to be too reductive, because it isn’t everyone, but a lot of people who make this sort of argument seem to be worried their treats will be taken away if we acknowledge bad things about the treats.
oh it’s just the same reaction as vegans get huh
omg is this just the vegan struggle session again
All struggle sessions are the same, it’s always people fighting their treatler impulses.
The only way forward is to reject everything and live a life of pure asceticism.
I joke, but based on what I’ve seen (or how I interpret struggle sessions) it always does just seem to be one party who wants to have morally uncomplex treats and distractions, and doesn’t like that their actions may have consequences for them or others. I’ve probably got quite a few treats myself that if someone called them out I would join the
side of the discussion.
they also label the only people who could possibly be concerned about it as evangelicals.
Because evangelicals are the ones that push the idea that a person could be addicted to porn and have funded questionable studies to prove it. If you spout evangelical rhetoric online, don’t be surprised when people mistake you for an evangelical.
The idea gets consistent pushback because it is not true, and because letting evangelical falsehoods get thrown around on a leftist website is very bad.
choking. breath play is really fucking dangerous and requires clear consent, but since it’s normalized in porn (where consent can HOPEFULLY be discussed off camera), it becomes normalized in vanilla, where consent rules are NOT really heavily used.
Holy fuck. I used to be heavily into kink and into some kinda extremely play, but like what happened to RACK? You can straight up die when breathplay is involved.
The risk is small, but you need clear consent and a plan for what if heart attack etc. Holy shit we used to be dorks swapping lists of what we were into or willing to consider before ever doing a scene. Has the culture gotten that fucked?
One time someone slapped me without discussing it prior and I had to give that mfer a lecture about cranial and spinal anatomy, consent, and the importance of bracing the skull. I thought that was an extreme mistake.
RACK = Risk-aware consensual kink, for my fellow squares
Ah yes sorry, I hate it when people include weird acroynms without defining them. I cannot live up to mine own ideals.
To explain to the peanut gallery, a movement in kink culture that views kink not as an activity which has to, or can be, 100% safe. Instead it focuses on clear scoping out of risks, strategies for mitigation and clear consent by parties aware of them.
In my experience, at least in my local area, the actual kinksters shy away from choking quite a bit, it’s the more vanilla-leaning people who choke a lot.
Casuals ruining shit for everyone smh my head.
Medical people are the best play partners. All the anatomical knowledge to be safeish and insane with the unphased affect of someone who has rearranged some organs.
Re: choking
spoiler
the most obvious one is choking.
I have noticed this too. I find chocking to be, for lack of a better word, extremely triggering and an immediate mood killer. If someone tried that shit on me IRL, it would be an immediate relationship ender.
ahh there was a study someone linked me a while ago about the commonality of choking in one night stands raising over the past few years. there’s a lot of articles about this, but i can’t find the study im thinking of
Re: choking.
The thing I say is; would you want someone to ask your consent to put a plastic bag over your head and wrap tape around it?
Because as crazy is it sound that is a far safer breath play than choking (suffocation is different to strangulation) and you’d still want to have pre-planned discussion and active consent.
yeah
completely reasonable and justifiable to point this out and while maybe you cant definitively say porn causes these things the propagation and normalization of these trends I do think is harmful and reinforcing, particularly in cultural narratives and attitudes around sex and SV. Why is that even a debate, this is a Citations Needed/Michael Parenti fan webzone
and acting like people are evangelical freaks for being concerned about the normalization of hardcore sexual acts through porn makes me s upset
same and also why let the evangelicals be the only voice in the room on problematic porn use which is very obviously a thing (even if you disagree with the label of addiction)? And I think that extends beyond the content of porn itself, and requires a very explicit marxist and materialist lens to be analyzed properly, since imo it applies more broadly to modern content delivery and our relationship to the internet in general today.
I think part of this too is some of the language and narratives (ESPECIALLY pop-psych ones) around addiction and also how we communicate regarding it but thats a different conversation maybe
I’ve noticed this rhetoric, that porn addiction isn’t a thing, multiple times here lately. i don’t quite get it,
You’ve noticed people pointing out the fact that the current rhetoric surrounding porn addiction was literally cooked up by evangelicals and mormons as a way to be puritanical weirdos. Because that is just the truth.
If you’re older than 15 you saw it happen in real time in the media, you can’t pretend it didn’t happen.
I guess this is what I’m going to be posting about today. Defending porn. I’m not even that big a consumer of porn. I just don’t think we should be literally repeating stuff the mormon church and evangelical republican politicians are saying.
I think both posts are complaining about the same thing: policing each other’s behaviors and expression of sexuality.
Maybe a lot of incels/gooners bring their lack of sex on themselves by not considering others desires or experiences. Until they figure that out, they have to be removed from common spaces. The loneliness epidemic is self-inflicted (and exacerbated by patriarchal capitalism).
I don’t really see where people are doing what you described in the OP in that thread?
Maybe I’m reading too much into things, or projecting. IDK
I’m annoyed that our ace users are being exposed to this discussion. Not every space has to be sexualised. It’s not prudish, it’s just respecting people’s differences.
Please just spoiler tag it. It’s not a big deal.
Yes, our site culture is a little different - it’s trying something unusual - but for some people having an extremely LGBTQ positive space where sexual content is opt-in is like drinking the most refreshing glass of water you’ll ever experience.
for some people having an extremely LGBTQ positive space where sexual content is opt-in is like drinking the most refreshing glass of water you’ll ever experience.
Seconding this, I much prefer this type of stuff being opt in
hard agree. i absolutely hate being leered at by men and people act like me dressing to avoid that is me falling to the patriarchy, or something? like no, me needing to wear long skirts instead of short skirts to not be leered at isn’t on me.
also i am not a prude for not liking random male-gazey sex scenes
As an ace, I would like to add that calling a sex-repulsed ace a prude is aphobic. l’m not sex repulsed myself, but someone asking you to respect their boundaries when it comes to sex-related topics or not being comfortable around sexual media isn’t prudish.
I don’t even think the original post you made this post in reference to said anything remotely like that but the title of your post is not wrong.
It gave me that impression though, calling Hexbear prudish and puritan
It gave me that impression though
oh well shut down the entire fucking site, someone got the wrong impression??
Like if anything I think this post kinda validates their claims of Hexbear being prudish and puritan because here you are going “This might cause a struggle but: Calling people prudes for not wanting to sexualise themselves is bad” when the post you’re referencing never did that lol.
Swear half the ‘struggle sessions’ on this site are someone getting the wrong impression from a post and suddenly going “WOW Hexbear is on some shit, there have been multiple posts calling for Hexbears to sexualize themselves and calling Hexbears who don’t want to do this prudes”
I get your point lol
Keep in mind that I am very stupid
I didn’t mean to come off so angry and do not want to imply that I think you are stupid - so apologies if it read like that.
No not at all, you’re fine.
My impression is that it is a bit Puritan. I think a lot of young people are tbh, it’s the usaian influence which is simultaneously an extremely Puritan culture that also massively commodifies sex.
GOOD POST
grandmas tell the coolest stories
Pretty reasonable. Calling anyone a prude for their personal decisions about their own bodies and self-expression is uncool. Really, forcing yourself into anyone’s space that you are not apart of, and trying to force them to change their behavior for your conformity, especially when their behavior causes no harm to them or you, is antithetical to a culture of diversity and acceptance.
OP of that dumpster fire thread just threw ace people under the bus lmao
They apologised for the tone and that it wasn’t meant to be a call-out of Hexbear, they haphazardly mentioned the “volcel poIice” meme as a joke and didn’t understand the intent behind it: https://hexbear.net/comment/6147530
I’m saying this as a sex-negative ace person who found the original post kinda aphobic, though I didn’t say so explicitly at the time. In one of my comments there they replied that they were “being combative for no reason and immediately regretted after hitting post”: https://hexbear.net/comment/6147126
Hey look! It’s me!
But yeah, I had the same concerns you did, and they explained themselves that they just weren’t really thinking about how it would come across. Their reaction did seem genuine, if their goal was to cause a struggle they probably would’ve been a lot more combative in the comments and much less apologetic.
Thank you!
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I want to know what was so fucked up that this guy got totally nuked lol
it’s just a bit account, they’re posting Removed by mod but there’s nothing in the modlog
This bit is easier to identify if your site interface language isn’t in English.
