Y’all are cute. Neither of these things matter.
What about humor?
Joey doesn’t share food!
Dominance? Buddy I just want a fry calm down.
If I can’t eat off your plate then do you even like me enough to be dating me?
I would not love you if you were a worm either
Leave hair ties in the bathroom and living room to establish territory.
Hair ties? Why not just piss on the furniture?
Piss is easier to clean up.
Leave hair ties in each room so she has one less excuse.
Gross
I don’t know where this gender war crap comes from. I always dated people that I liked and wanted to be around. It was even fun sometimes.
This sounds like an updated variant of “I hate my wife” boomer humor.
Woman makes joke at expense of men.
Everyone: “Yas gurl slay.”
Man responds with joke at expense of women.
Also everyone: “Omg, misogyny! Quit it with this gender war bs!”
It’s a gender war whenever a man says something dumb, but when a woman says anything misandristic then all of a sudden “there is no gender war, wdym”
I’m tired, boss.
More and more men are getting sick and tired of women who think they are behaving like other men, but who are actually just being colossal assholes.
And if we were to hold them to the same degree of accountability as men are, they have total meltdowns. The “who hurt you?” being exhibit № 1 of someone facing the discomfort of true accountability, and desperately trying to deflect and reframe.
Healthy boundaries can be deeply offensive to the privileged.
Yeah, it’s funny how many of these comments are complaining about what the guy said, while conveniently ignoring that the woman posted first and he’s just clapping back.
How does it go, don’t dish out what you can’t handle having dished back?
If we deconstruct the process, it looks something like this:
-
Some guys act like colossal assholes
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Guys who call them out get ridiculed as “nice guys.”
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Colossal assholes get all the attention.
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Women generalize “colossal assholes” as “men.”
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Guys who say “not all men” get ridiculed and called “redpilled incel chud.”
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Keyboard pseudo-feminist influencers confuse “smash the patriarchy” with “be the patriarchy” (“gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss, slay gurl slay”).
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Women get duped into thinking pseudo-feminism is real feminism, and begin acting like the colossal assholes that they initially criticized.
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Guys call out this behavior, and women go “OMG! History! Oppression! Women are subjugated by the patriarchy grbhrhbrhh!” Or “Men deserve to be treated like shit because women have been treated like shit by men!” And “LOL ‘not all men’ LOSER stop mansplaining!!1!1!1!!” Oh and don’t forget “Your feelings/problems don’t matter because you’re a man, so suck it up buttercup, be a Real Man™!!!” (Literally promoting toxic masculinity, the opposite of feminism).
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Some guys get sick of this treatment, give up on trying, commiserate with other guys with similar experiences, and everyone takes this as confirmation bias that they were always misogynists and deserve all the ridicule and scorn that they’re loaded with.
Can’t argue with a single point.
The main downside is that № 9 is a gateway to the redpill “manosphere”, which if they enter into incel communities this can go very bad for their mental health and interpersonal relationships.
It’s why I have always pushed people like this to the MGTOW communities, which are all about camaraderie, self-improvement, rational self-assessment, setting healthy boundaries, and cultivating intrinsic (internal) motivation such that companionship of any kind switches from a psychological necessity to a value-added prospect, where the man can trivially walk away if the value just isn’t there.
Yes, exactly. I’ve been pointing this out for years.
Guys who feel rejected and marginalized are relegated to spaces where it’s mostly an echo chamber of other guys like them. Most of these guys are vulnerable due to social isolation, loneliness, and the mental health issues that inevitably result (which is an empirically established fact within the field of psychology, so I’m tired of hearing people act like it doesn’t fucking matter).
Predatory “manfluencers” know this, so they go to these spaces to poach and radicalize “loser virgins,” basically by negging them and saying that they can “coach” them on how to not be a loser. “Be like me, get laid, then you’re no longer an incel and people will finally like you.”
It’s a lie, obviously, but it works on large numbers and that’s why you see this huge uptick on disillusioned outcasts getting absorbed into these toxic spaces.
But whenever I call that out, people say things like “Why should I have any sympathy for these sexists,” which not only partially conflates the “losers” with the predatory abusers manipulating them, it also ignores the chronology of the whole thing. These guys aren’t born misogynist. They get radicalized, because they were vulnerable. And people ignore that my argument is directed towards addressing that vulnerability which fosters wide-spread radicalization; not to accepting misogyny from people who are already radicalized.
Or they accuse me of some sort of victim blaming, as if I was trying to say that women get abused because they reject men. That’s a severe distortion of what I was saying. Abuse is not excusable. But it can be prevented, and part of that prevention should be preventing widespread radicalization by giving young men spaces where they feel appreciated and like they belong, so that they don’t wind up in the echo chambers where they get poached by the manosphere.
Or people say “Why should we help someone who even would be radicalized?” But that ignores the psychology of radicalization. It can happen to anyone who’s placed in a vulnerable position for long enough, and social isolation is one of the major indicators for at-risk individuals. Everyone has their psychological limit; some people just never get pushed anywhere near theirs. That needs to be recognized as a privilege. Someone might be incredibly strong psychologically, but if they’re isolated long enough and constantly subjected to ridicule and scorn, then they very much can reach their breaking point. And that’s when the abusers sweep in with their negging and their bait-and-switch to get these guys hooked on the bullshit they’re selling.
Or I make any of these arguments, and people don’t even listen and just assume I’m trying to justify misogyny and abuse, and they label me as an incel (because who else would think about this?), and since they equate “incel” with the abusers who prey on them, that’s a socially sanctionable label, and therefore my own isolation and mental illness become a moral failing on my part, which everyone holds against me.
And I swear, if I wasn’t psychologically stronger, I could very much have wound up radicalized in the same way. I almost did a few times. The initial negging and carrot-waving can be very insidious and hard to detect early on.
But since I’ve been abused myself by toxic machismo assholes, I had a deep-seated burning hatred for them. I would never join them. I’d literally kill myself first, and I almost have a few times. So even though everyone else hates me and rejects me because they think I’m already one of them (just for being lonely and isolated, imagine that!), and that makes me precisely the target demographic that those abusers try to radicalize, I’ll never be one of them.
So I’m caught somewhere in the middle, with no friends, trying to objectively look at the problem and describe it with clarity so that people smarter than myself can determine how to adequately address it.
And simply because I don’t parrot the same vitriol that everyone else does, and choose instead to identify the root of the problem so that a real solution can be found, I’m flamed for it and the cycle of isolation continues.
Edit:
BTW, I don’t know anything about MGTOW, but I’d say most men’s lib movements often get co-opted by the far-right because liberal and leftist guys are strongly discouraged from participating in any sort of community like that.
Even if it starts in a healthy way, people label it as part of the manosphere, so all the healthy guys leave, and the only ones left are the ones who are unstable/vulnerable and the ones who want to prey on these easy targets. The latter are usually the die-hard sexists which the movements ultimately wind up being known for.
Edit 2:
Yeah, it looks like Wikipedia says MGTOW is part of the manosphere and dominated by the far-right, even though a cursory inspection seems to indicate that it’s just a bunch of men choosing not to prioritize dating and romance in their lives.
I don’t know enough about it to say one way or the other, but I wouldn’t be surprised if men who decide they don’t need women in their lives are labeled as misogynist (even though men who do believe they need women in their lives are also called misogynist… go figure…)
Yeah, it looks like Wikipedia says MGTOW is part of the manosphere and dominated by the far-right,
I think that specific article takes the prize for being by far the most blatantly inaccurate and downright socially poisoned article on Wikipedia.
It’s an extreme example of gender bigotry bias, and ideological “poisoning of the well” by female supremacists. It’s their straw man that they can point to and claim MGTOW is “misogynistic”.
The problem with most redpill communities is that they are recruiting fields for alt-right troglodytes. So most any incel forum will also be awash with appeals to emotion to blind the young men in there to the underlying alt-right messaging.
But MGTOW? Sure, some men are right-wing. But it’s hard to be of the right when the focus is on genuine self-improvement and brutally rational analysis.
After all, reality itself has a strong left-leaning bias.
Glad to hear I’m not the only one that sees through it. It really feels like it at times. That’s part of the reason why isolation is so toxic.
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Yes. The long way of saying there is a double standard.
Yes, but if I just say “there’s a double standard” then people go “nuh uh! quit it with this fake gender war bs.”
I’m all for continuing where Epstein left off, minus the child diddling and making a blue-eyed race, but I can actually understand the “they think wrong, it’s their brains, finally found a plan how to kill off the poors” comes from.
Humanity is doomed. If sexism makes it extinct faster, then it is a good thing. If we fight it, we just prolong the suffering.
Humans will never be just, and I now feel relief knowing that you will drive yourselves extinct.
who hurt you?
Reddit answers are so le funny
Many people. Almost too many to bear.
This is /r/SipsTea leaking into Lemmy.
👆
I just don’t want to share food. Unless it’s sharing plates.
It’s when she says she doesn’t want fries, then eats most of your fries.
Yeah, when I get a loaded baked potato, I always get her one for herself that she can have 3 bites of. That way she doesn’t eat my leftovers, and she ends up with leftovers that she ends up sharing with me. It’s a win-win.
Yes, I would have bought large if we were going to share.
The internet. It full of wild shit that no one should ever do but people pretend bc it’s funny or edgy.
A lot of lemmings are pretty much what Republicans imagine liberals are.
If you want to establish dominance, tie me up and whip me raw. Fuck off with this weak ass passive aggressive bullshit.
Do you fucking idiots know what a joke is?
Do you?
i thought i knew but I guess “funny” isn’t part of it
I know it’s a total cliché, but I’m so glad I was lucky enough to exit the dating world in the early 2010s
Shit seems baad
Gosh same. Me it was 2014, back when tinder still showed your mutual friends.
This vitriol around spending money on dates is so annoying. Like if it concerns you why don’t you just do cheap dates like coffee or a joint by the river like a sane person?
It weeds out any people whose values don’t align with yours on that front.
For me, it’s not so much the idea of paying. Although most women I’ve dated have preferred to split the bill and I’m alright with that because it’s their choice and they’re choosing independence. I find that attractive.
For me, the issue is the fact that even while dismantling the idea of gender roles that previously applied to women, so many people still expect men to conform to certain gender roles, i.e. “pay for dates,” “be a breadwinner/protector,” “take the risks/initiative by asking the questions, making the moves, etc.” (but not the wrong moves! Be confident, but not too confident!).
Of course, if a man thinks of himself as a breadwinner or a protector, people say that makes him a misogynist. But if he fails to perform those roles, then he’s “not a real man” and “undatable.” And people wonder why there aren’t more examples of healthy masculinity? Do you understand how difficult it is to navigate all this mixed messaging?
So basically, even though I find myself attracted to independent women, if I say something to the effect of “I prefer dating women who split the bill,” most people would call me cheap, or accuse me of fetishizing independent women, and either way I’d still end up being called a misogynist.
I don’t date anymore, cause I got sick of all the hoops I had to jump through only to still be wrong. Sorry, but I have more self-respect than that (barely).
My whole point though, is instead of being reactionary of women pressuring men to pay, the best solution is just to not attract those women in the first place by favouring cheap or free dates. Women are not all the same, a lot of women love going for a walk for a date or just getting a coffee.
I hear a lot of men - including men i know and have talked to about this in person - complaining of women expecting expensive dates, and when I’ve told them “just stop going on expensive dates” they respond by telling me they won’t get as many dates that way and my big question to them here is “why do you want dates with the same women you were just complaining about? Is this about getting dates or about finding someone with whom you connect?”
I don’t think it’s reactionary. I think it comes from a common experience that single guys have. If it were easier to find a woman you connect with, who just wants to hang out and get to know you for your personality, then I suppose it would be that simple. As it stands though, women like that might exist, but they’re like unicorns.
As a single guy, if you go out to third spaces (few and far between as they are, especially ones that don’t center around alcohol), with the intention of finding someone to date, people will call you a creep. If you go to a hobby group to try to meet like-minded people, and you find someone you’re interested in romantically, if you even so much as hint at it, people will call you a creep. If you’re in public, the general consensus is “Don’t bother women; they can only assume you’re a predator and they’d rather be mauled by a bear than talk to you.”
So meeting women in person is out of the question. But if you go to the dating apps, the vast majority of women there are either bots, or they’re just advertising their instagram or their snapchat or their tiktok or their onlyfans and they don’t actually check their profile for matches. And the few who actually match with you end up just wanting to sell you cryptocurrency and aren’t actually interested in meeting you for a date; maybe they aren’t really the person pictured in the profile.
And the relatively few real women who are actually on the apps are either filtering for height and/or income level, or fast-swiping based on looks (sucks to suck if you don’t take good selfies), or if they actually read your profile then you still have to somehow manage to be unique without being cringe, seem “normal” without being cliché, show some personality without sounding self-centered, express confidence but don’t be self-aggrandizing.
So that’s already an impossible balance to strike on just a silly profile on a platform that’s already inherently kinda cringe. So ultimately it comes down to looks, height, and income level. And even if there are women on the apps who look past that stuff, they’re only really being shown the profiles of guys who pay the top-tier subscription and pay for extra boosts on top of that. And the guys who get the most likes (meaning attractive, tall, and high-earning).
And if you somehow luck out and get matched with a real woman, but you don’t immediately sound enthusiastic (but not too enthusiastic, mind!), or if you some how even slightly indicate that you want to know if she’s real before getting emotionally invested in the conversation, then she gets offended and calls you sexist for even implying that a scam account could be catphishing as a woman.
And if you somehow make it through all of that unscathed, and have a real conversation with a woman, even if it seems to be going well, she might ghost you at any moment without any indication as to why. It could be something you said, maybe taken a different way from how you meant it, or maybe it sounds cringe or cliché or didn’t land or whatever. Or maybe you took too long to respond. Or maybe you responded too fast. Or maybe she found a “better” guy and moved on. Or maybe she went on a date with some douchebag and now she thinks all guys are like that. You’ll just never know. But you have to make it through at least a week or two of navigating all of this perfectly, and then if you’re lucky, you might get a first date, after which she might ghost you for any reason or no reason at all. And you probably need to go on at least four or five dates before discussing any sort of commitment or expectations after which you might finally feel somewhat secure in the budding relationship.
So dating apps are out of the question too. And other online spaces are too, for that matter, because if you bother women there then they call you a creep.
So you can’t meet women in person. You can’t meet women online. What’s left?
But a guy can’t exactly get away with saying he’s searching for a diamond in the rough, because apparently that’s misogynist since it implies there are women out there who don’t meet his standards (such as “treat me as a person and not as a wallet.” Even the implication that some women might just be looking for a free meal is seen as sexist!).
Describing the process of dating as an interview process is viewed as sexist (if you’re a guy of course, because apparently that objectifies women; but if a woman describes it the same way then she’s “liberated” and “empowered”).
So all-in-all if a guy lucks out enough to actually land a date, and the woman suggests somewhere expensive, if he suggests somewhere cheap or free then she might ghost him and then it might be another year or two before he’s offered another date. Is that really an offer he can turn down?
If you’re wandering in the desert, and you’re starving, and someone offers you a grilled cheese for $30, do you really have a choice to say “That’s too expensive! I’ll go somewhere else.”? Airlines know this.
And yet society still hasn’t caught up to recognize how lopsided the dating scene is. Yes, women face problems and that sucks. Most people don’t deny that. But the slightest discussion of the problems men face gets viewed as an attack on womankind writ large, and immediately flamed.
“pay for dates,” “be a breadwinner/protector,” “take the risks/initiative by asking the questions, making the moves, etc.” (but not the wrong moves! Be confident, but not too confident!).
A lot of this stuff about men being attractive is also true of women. The attractiveness of assertiveness, initiative (and if we’re being honest, having enough money to have choices on spending), are things that women look for in men, sure. But those are also things I looked for in women.
I don’t want to pay for a nice dinner only to find out that the woman I took on that date only goes to nice restaurants with men trying to sleep with them, because I can’t really share in that interest in the same way as I could with someone who seeks out restaurant experiences on her own. I don’t want to date a woman who just sits around waiting to be asked to do things, and doesn’t take initiative around how she takes control of her own social life. Those are unattractive traits in women, too.
So a big chunk of women’s expectations of men they might date aren’t necessarily gendered, even if they do fall within older gendered ideals: be able to pay your own bills, and maybe have some left over to do some fun stuff. Be confident and secure in your social life. Be able to stand up for yourself and those around you. Yes, that could be framed as a problematic gender expectations, but they’re also kinda broad expectations of how to be attractive.
Right, and things that were originally seen as a “woman’s gender role” are also gender-neutral; i.e., cooking, housekeeping, etc.
But a woman can say “I want a man who can cook!” And yet men can’t say “I want a woman who can cook!”
Conversely, a woman can say “I want a man who makes six figures and pays for dates!” But if a man says “I want a woman who makes six figures and pays for dates,” people call him a cuck and say he’s not a real man. Women want to close the wage gap (rightfully so), but they still want a guy who earns more than them. Make it make sense.
The point is, women are allowed to expect anything they want from men. But men aren’t allowed to expect anything at all from women.
It’s like society took the concepts of gender roles, and tried to take the best of both worlds and give them to women, while leaving the worst of both worlds to the men. That’s not exactly egalitarian.
But a woman can say “I want a man who can cook!” And yet men can’t say “I want a woman who can cook!”
Not exactly like that. You’d say something like “I want a woman who’s into food” and if she can’t cook she’s obviously not into food. Framing it in terms of what a potential partner can do for them instead of what a partner likes to do for themselves seems kinda tacky, tasteless, gives people the ick, whatever it is people say about red flags or whatever.
But if a man says “I want a woman who makes six figures and pays for dates,” people call him a cuck and say he’s not a real man.
I’ve never heard of this happening. And I know plenty of people who will only date women with university educations who have high paying white collar careers (and plenty of women who have that as a strong preference or prerequisite for the men they’ll date).
People are allowed to have standards. It’s just weird when the standards are framed in terms of service towards a partner rather than something they can do for themselves.
Normal: I want someone who has their life together.
Weird: I want someone who can help me pay my rent.
Weird: I want someone with a car I can borrow from time to time.
Normal: I want someone who can maintain their car.
Weird: I want someone who can fix my car.
Right, but the point isn’t about whether or not it’s tacky. The point is that women can set any standard they want, but if a man sets a standard then people call it misogyny.
Also, education level ≠ income level. If you want a partner you can have intelligent discussions with on a regular basis, it makes sense to look for someone with a university education.
But if you’re judging potential partners by their income level, what does that say about you? It doesn’t have much of an indication on their intelligence or conversational ability. It says more about what kind of dates they can afford, what kind of gifts they can give. If a high salary is a must-have for your dating standards, then that’s honestly pretty shallow.
The point is that women can set any standard they want, but if a man sets a standard then people call it misogyny.
This just isn’t true. People set standards all the time. And plenty of people set unreasonable standards that leave them unable to find matches, at least for periods of time. Men and women.
People get angry when they disagree with the standards, but nobody disagrees with the concept of having standards.
For an example of someone complaining when they don’t agree with a standard, see here:
If a high salary is a must-have for your dating standards, then that’s honestly pretty shallow.
Sure, you can complain about the standard. But it’s still one I always had, indirectly: I only dated women with university degrees (and more education past that was a plus), and liked people who were well traveled, who had stable careers and just generally had their shit together, who liked food, who have hobbies. That all pretty heavily skews towards the rich, who can afford to travel and dine out and maybe pursue expensive hobbies.
Your focus seems to be on the up-front early dates, which was always kinda a short phase. Long term, you want to be with someone who has similar attitudes towards money as you do, and sometimes that’s easier to filter when they already have similar money as you.
I have single friends of pretty much every gender and orientation/preference. I don’t agree with your view that the world is harsher towards men with standards than women with standards.
It’s not that I’m trying to be dismissive of the dissatisfaction of being single while wanting to be in relationships. I’m just deeply skeptical of your explanation of how hetero dating works in the modern world, because it most definitely doesn’t match my experience or the observed experiences of my friends/family.
And I feel like having close friendships with women is an easy way to see how dating goes for other people, too. None of my women friends seemed to have an issue with my standards for women, even the more superficial things I preferred. I for sure was never labeled misogynistic by my women friends/cousins/coworkers for having my standards.
It’s abysmal. Getting ghosted so often you don’t even know where you went wrong. A couple weeks ago i matched with someone who liked MCU movies, and I do too. I asked which were some of her favorites and when I reopened the app an hour later she deleted the convo 🤷🏻♂️
Having a vagina means that you will get hundreds of messages. Some will be so bad that you will want to immediately delete the app. It’s a cacophony of dick picks and men who will just confess to the most fucked up things as an opener.
For what it’s worth, she might have found someone she liked and disabled the app with no bearing on you or your quality.
Or in the case of my friends, find someone she didn’t like enough that she’s taking a break from the apps.
Yeah it was not fun to reenter the dating world recently but staying in a broken relationship would have been worse. I’m hoping good people still find good people through whatever medium. But I’m understanding that’s harder now (but still worth it). This type of idiotic take has always existed.
Yeah it’s so bad I never even had a date in my life rip. It’s not that I get rejected a lot, in fact I never even got to this point, since I don’t even know where I would have to go to meet any women.
You won’t ever know if you don’t ever try. Find some third spaces you think are interesting enough and put yourself out there.
That’s terrible advice. This isn’t the 90s. Dude would get torn up trying that these days.
Could you explain why? People are agreeing with me more than you so far.
People want to believe there’s still hope for the world. But just go out to any third space and try to talk to people. Especially as a single guy. You’ll see what I mean.
Eating off my plate is a good way to lose a hand.
I would have thought you’d be eating out of a bowl. :P
That would be less messy. 🤔
I’ve tried to eat soup off of a plate. It was always awkward when I started lapping.
found the badass
Those people deserve each other
So nobody else has to deal with them
They seem like they would set their barriers pretty quick. They might be great for each other.
The ‘us vs them’ mindset continues to propagate.
That’s why I always shout “first to cum doesn’t have to clean up the mess”
I win every time 😎
You mean you don’t eat the mess?
instead of casually sex you do competitive sex
Ranked competitive ladder sex.
CEO of sex announces elo system
If we’re not sharing, I don’t want to hang out.
Right, like you live in the west of you can afford to go out food scarsity, most likely not an issue. Yall just greedy twits.
This! People in the comments are so weird
Sharing is one thing, but taking something off the other’s plate without asking “to establish dominance” is toxic.
Fair. I usually set expectations before stuff arrives though.
That’s called healthy communication and arriving at a mutual agreement. That’s not about “establishing dominance” like the original post more than implies.
the first one is hot, the second one is a red flag
You’re giving, r/FemaleDatingStrategy energy. Not a compliment.
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