Many people on lemmy.ml deeply respect and admire authoritarian governments and organizations.
Iran, China, North Korea, Soviet Union…
The West has many flaws. But our flaws are nothing compared to these guys.
Iran hangs homosexuals. Iran shot 30,000 people in less than than 2 weeks. The Soviet Union had to build a fucking Iron wall to prevent people from escaping. The Soviets lied about the Chernobyl nuclear explosion. China censors the internet. China wants to eliminate Islam. North Korea is a totalitarian hellscape. Watching anime is a crime.
Why is lemmy.ml so fascinated with authoritarians?
This post is satire I can’t believe it’s true.
Daily reminder of why I hate white people.
Oh sure, we’re basically directly doing a genocide right now and at all times, but did you know that China CENSORS THE INTERNET???
(I mean yes we censor the internet in the west too but not in the evil Chinese way)GOOD reply:
The Soviet Union had to build a fucking Iron wall to prevent people from escaping.
This dumbass thought the Iron Curtain was a literal curtain of iron lmao
Basically the Iron Wall from Trench Crusade protecting civilization from demons.
Jfc lmao
Imagine doing the hem on that thing.
Iran hangs homosexuals.
This isn’t good and no leftist, especially MLs, support execution of LGBTQ+ people. Hexbear and Lemmygrad don’t even allow “”““ironic””“” slurs. Why would we support killing people based on their sexuality?
Iran shot 30,000 people in less than than 2 weeks.
No they didn’t. Literally fake news put forth by the Trump regime.
The Soviet Union had to build a fucking Iron wall to prevent people from escaping.
No they didn’t. The Berlin Wall was to prevent NATO spies from just wandering into the USSR.
The Soviets lied about the Chernobyl nuclear explosion.
No they didn’t. A few local bureaucrats did, who were all convicted by Soviet courts for this. Once Moscow got word of what happened, they immediately began an emergency response.
China censors the internet.
Yes. And it’s a good thing. No fake news, no AI slop enshittifying everything, no flat-earthers, no antivaxers, and no neo-nazis plotting mass shootings together.
China wants to eliminate Islam.
No they don’t. You’re thinking of the US.
North Korea is a totalitarian hellscape. Watching anime is a crime.
The DPRK literally has animators who worked on Japanese anime from North Korea. If you knew anything about the anime industry, you’d know it’s a major controversy about Japanese animation studios subcontracting work to both halves of Korea, China, and several other countries.
This is a deeply unserious person.
i think it’s worse than that, i think this guy thinks the Iron Curtain was a physical thing
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our flaws are nothing compared to these guys
founded in the genocide of millions of indigenous people. built on the backs of millions of black people. sustained through the routine blood sacrifice of millions across the globe. how many invasions? how many coups? how many color revolutions? how many human lives?
doesn’t matter. anime is illegal.
a firing squad would be a kindness.
doesn’t matter. anime is illegal.
Based
Tankies are so authoritarian, anyway here’s why genocide, deportations, state codified racism, mass incarceration and systemic corporate tyranny are actually good
At its core liberalism is defined by projection
I still don’t know what authoritarian means.
Basically authoritarianism is the concept of a government that uses state power and monopoly of violence to enforce the will of the state and its own legitimacy.
Looking up descriptions online will have people saying all sorts of shit because the actual meaning of authoritarianism is just every state.
Authoritarianism is a political system characterized by the rejection of political plurality, the use of strong central power to preserve the political status quo, and reductions in democracy, separation of powers, civil liberties, and the rule of law. Authoritarian regimes may be either autocratic or oligarchic and may be based upon the rule of a party, the military, or the concentration of power in a single person.
-Wikipedia
A funny thing about Wikipedias short description here means a state without democratic institutions isn’t necessarily authoritarian, since it is not moving away from them, they just don’t exist within it. Also under this definition the US isn’t authoritarian, since it is not based upon the rule of a party, but two parties.Authoritarianism, in politics and government, the blind submission to authority and the repression of individual freedom of thought and action. Authoritarian regimes are systems of government that have no established mechanism for the transfer of executive power and do not afford their citizens civil liberties or political rights. Power is concentrated in the hands of a single leader or a small elite, whose decisions are taken without regard for the will of the people. The term authoritarianism is often used to denote any form of government that is not democratic, but studies have demonstrated that there is a great deal of variation in authoritarian rule.
-Britannica
“Submission to authority” will appear in the next (and last) source as well. What does it mean? No clue, they don’t define it.Pretty based of Britannica to support the DPRK though - considering the DPRK does
- Have a system for the transfer of executive power
- Does afford it’s citizens political rights and civil liberties. (Without getting into all the propaganda about North Korea, even within the western liberals propaganda apparatus it cannot be denied that the DPRK does afford it’s citizens *some rights and liberties. How many and to what extent and which ones specifically? Doesn’t matter)
Power is concentrated in the hands of a single leader or a small elite, whose decisions are taken without regard for the will of the people.
Okay so every government with a parliamentary system and a low approval rating then?
The term authoritarianism is often used to denote any form of government that is not democratic, but studies have demonstrated that there is a great deal of variation in authoritarian rule.
I wonder why there is such a variation? Could it be because the concept is flawed? No! It must be because
Authoritarianism: The belief that people must obey completely and not be allowed freedom to act as they wish
-Cambridge dictionary
Apparently it’s just… A belief system and not actually about how a state enforces itself? Doesn’t this make every “vote blue no matter who!” lib an authoritarian? Abolish bedtimes I guess, since that is a belief children should obey the authority of their parents. Abolish homework as well.Authoritarianism: of, relating to, or favoring blind submission to authority [OR] of, relating to, or favoring a concentration of power in a leader or an elite not constitutionally responsible to the people
-Merriam-Webster
The second definition is perhaps the best one available, though it is kind of yank-brained. The UK doesn’t have a constitution. It is authoritarian, yes, but not because of a lack of a legal document. It also decries the concentration of power, so that would be every centralised state apparatus.
And what does “constitutionally representative to the people” even mean? Does this not also require the constitution continually is changed as the will of the people changes? I agree that would be a good thing, but that would mean most governments are authoritarian, considering how many have constitutions with bits that leave them excempt from responsibility to “the people”.
Finally this definition doesn’t actually care about what the government does, just that it is not constitutionally beholden to “the will of the people”.@Cowbee@hexbear.net a short text you are more than welcome to appropriate for use in your crusade to educate the libs.
Thanks!
The term authoritarianism is often used to denote any form of government that is not democratic, but studies have demonstrated that there is a great deal of variation in authoritarian rule.
I wonder why there is such a variation? Could it be because the concept is flawed? No! It must be because
@FlakesBongler@hexbear.net May I please beg thee for a skinner meme?
could it be authoritarianism is dogshit and reductive?"
"No! The enemies of the US state are just evil!’ (but more funny, you know you only produce bangers)
Every Post A BangerThey updated Frinkiac yesterday and i’m still getting used to it
Much more robust creation tools now
Giving me lots of material to work with too
It means the grey parts of
when a state does stuff and the further away from london it is, the more authoritarian it is
Authoritarian is a made up concept by a CIA-stooge who blamed the victims of the holocaust for not fighting back properly enough
“Authoritarian” is a word that it’s starting to get on my nerves, libs keep using it as some sort of gotcha all the time and it gets tiring. They refuse to read Engels’ On Authority, and will just keep using it all the time.
The West has many flaws. But our flaws are nothing compared to these guys.
In other words: “We invaded, enslaved, slaughtered, destroyed, coup’d, bombed, genocided and SA’ed, but they did no such thing and like socialism a little too much on the other side so they are worse.”
I can’t“Authoritarianism”… which is a word I’m sure most Americans will have a coherent understanding of…
Imo it’s really a matter of the perception of domestic suppression and international imperialism. For both of them,
applies.
“Chernobyl nuclear explosion” this is masterful rage bait hahahaha
This is why I can’t be in the trenches like some of you beautiful beasts. I’m already past the point where I’d just say “You know what fuck it you’re right I want to kill a gorillian people just because I’m so naive as to have actually read a book or two”
Like for real one of those times where in real life I’d sigh heavily and say “You know what I’m good. You believe whatever you want”
You either die as the ancom ball or you live long enough to become the soviet ball
Because that’s Marcist-lenisim?
Stalin named it, and he’s the one that set the definition of what that means.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism–Leninism
They don’t call it “Stalinism” because that’s way harder to defend.
The ones you see online don’t even understand it, it literally requires supporting the left most party, but I’ve never seen a .ml account actually pushing for change thru the two party system, despite that literally being the first step:
Marxism–Leninism holds that a two-stage communist revolution is needed to replace capitalism. A vanguard party, organized through democratic centralism, would seize power on behalf of the proletariat and establish a one-party communist state. The state would control the means of production, suppress opposition, counter-revolution, and the bourgeoisie, and promote Soviet collectivism, to pave the way for an eventual communist society that would be classless and stateless.[12]
Most people online that say they’re “ML” don’t understand anything about it. They “learned” all they know from unsourced shitposts.
Which is crazy, because this is the closest actual ML has ever come, after trump the Dems are most likely to gain so many seats, it’ll effectively be a one party government starting 2029.
If we get a progressive Dem that will name a progressive DNC chair after becoming president, we’re fucking there. A one party government that’s genuinely for the proletariat.
Any that claims to actually be ML and isn’t pushing for the DNC as hard as possible right now is lying about their self professed label, or never understood what it meant
This has to be one of the worst understandings of Marxism-Leninism I have ever seen.
Most people online that say they’re “ML” don’t understand anything about it. They “learned” all they know from unsourced shitposts.
If we get a progressive Dem that will name a progressive DNC chair after becoming president, we’re fucking there. A one party government that’s genuinely for the proletariat.
Marxism-Leninism-Bidenism
Yea I’m leaning to this being bait, lol
yeah its too good to be true lol it hits all the boxes.
also thanks for that reading list, its peak
No problem!
if the democrats win all the seats and appoint all democrats they will finally take off their mask of polite fascism and create a DOTP!
It’s not even funny how wrong it is, it’s just absolutely wrong.
It’s the product of knowing lies spread by disingenuous YouTubers, pretty sure. There’s no way to arrive there outside of outright deception.
It’s that or they’re just trolling.
I’m leaning on the latter.
This isn’t real and I’m not going to the post to find out. You made this up, no one like this actually exists. If there is a comment like this in there it was made by a fed. No one thinks like this.
They don’t call it “Stalinism” because that’s way harder to defend.
i call it stalinismAlso lmao, calling the PRI in México ML because they used to run a one party state
I, and many others I know, only use the term Stalinist when meeting new comrades to make sure it’s crystal clear that we’re not trots. Stalinism = Marxism-Leninism.
after trump the Dems are most likely to gain so many seats, it’ll effectively be a one party government starting 2029.
The absolute dedication to :vote: brain, and also not learning a fucking thing.
This has GOT to be an Eglin bot. There’s no way this is a real person
I read to “shitposts” and thought OK this isn’t bad, aside from the horrible misspelling of marxism-leninism.
Then I read the next paragraph and thought “WTF is this shit?”
Scrolled up and saw your UN and couldn’t believe what I was reading.
I agonizingly made it to the end, saw it was a quote, audibly sighed.
Glad you’re not embracing some sort of idealistic socdem theory comrade lol
Oh I’d never agree with this, haha. No, this is just one of the comments that stuck out as especially terrible there.
Holy shit the comments. These people are just mad because ML shit on the west for all the right reasons.
“i’m in favor of every anti-imperialism except the one that inconveniences me”
actually that’s way too generous to them
“I’m in favor of anti-imperialism, in that I can say I don’t support any individual atrocity of imperial powers. But the empires are still better than everyone else and should still rule” - FTFY
Once again the concept of “critical support” is lost on them. I doubt there’s many MLs who think that all those states are perfect and have never made any mistakes ever. Iran is not a socialist state, and to me it’s absurd to assume that communists will just completely support it without a single criticism. They just don’t want the narrative to constantly shift to “Iran bad” to distract from a more immediate criminal war being waged by the US and it’s underlings.
If you want to do the hierarchy of evil Olympics, it’s hard to top centuries of imperialism by Europe and later the United States.
It seems designed to push people in the west into complete apathy at best, and support for western hegemony at worst. I live in the west and things are far from rosy at the moment. I’m not going to just ignore it because “at least it’s not Iran” or some other bullshit. Iran, China, North Korea, etc. are not currently dropping bombs and destabilizing regions 1000s of miles away to try and terrorize entire populations into submission.
Good day
to rework a classic
I support the revolution that
feeds the childrendoesn’t bomb schools.What do you mean?? China’s been destabilizing the US this whole time by sitting back, doing nothing, and maybe selling some solar panels.
Those dastardly villains!
Yeah I believe in critical support. Critical, like I rolled a 20.
From @SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone
"have friends who are self proclaimed “tankies”, and talking to them a lot about it, my best understanding of the way they put it is basically:
You need an Iron Fist® to fix anything, and an Iron Fist® to keep it that way."
holy shit maybe instead of listening to your fuckin’ friends you have a WHOLE BOARD OF MARXIST-LENINIST TANKIES THAT YOU CAN ASK, TALK TO OR EVEN READ PREVIOUS POSTS FROM THAT HAVE AN ENTIRE COMMMUNIIIITTTTYYY OF PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT LEVELS OF EDUCATION, LITERACY AND VIEWS ON MARXIST-LENINISM IN DETAIL!!!
Like what the fuck do you even do? Like sure, you can agitate, educate and do everything in your power as a communist as you should to point people and teach them what your beliefs are…but what does it matter when they stare at the giant, descript signs with arrows pointing to even longer, actual descriptions of what we believe in and why and they just stare at the sign and bleat “Uhh my friends says tankieism is when iron fist!”
Like wtf do you actually do???
Communism is when Stalin gives you a 3 hour long Iron Fisting session and then you can take some potato pudding from the communal pot before you head to your Gulag bloc
Fuck you, that got me 😂
Iron Fist®
you have a WHOLE BOARD OF MARXIST-LENINIST TANKIES THAT YOU CAN ASK
we tend to dogpile libs who wander in. Sometimes they deserve it, but I think sometimes we just succumb to the frustration of being a demonized group with a hard-to-explain worldview. It might help if we had easily accessible, easily skimmed megathreads with resources for arguing with libs about sensitive topics.
On Lemmygrad we do have that, though. That’s the thing, Hexbear is a leftist unity website. If they want to talk to tankies specifically then they would have to go to our instance or talk to someone from our instance on hexbear or a tankie on here.
They also don’t have to wander in and say anything. There’s a reason early forums encouraged lurking; it reminds me a lot of “no investigation, no right to speak!” it was expected you’d come in, understand or read up on a website’s community instead of wandering in and wondering why it’s not reddit.
If someone is willing to patiently educate themself by reading posts on a tankie forum, that suggests that they are probably already interested in altering their worldview and are open to tankie positions, which is 90% of the battle.
But because our worldview is so demonized, most liberals don’t want to be persuaded by it. It would be like, if one of us wandered into a highly detailed holocaust denial forum – if we lacked the knowledge to argue back, because we’re not nazis obsessed with denying the holocaust, that would be an uncomfortable feeling, and rather than opening our minds to this atrocious new perspective, we would hightail it out of there looking for someone, anyone, to debunk those claims (and in our case we’d be in luck).
The first thing to reach a liberal (or anyone) isn’t evidence, it’s credibility, which comes from our values, conduct, and epistemology. They first have to see that, despite what they hear and currently believe about us, we’re good people, we care about the same things they do, and we try to inform ourselves in a rigorous, media-literate, open-minded way. Then they need to see liberal media as less credible – it can help to start with low-hanging fruit, to establish that they do lie, at least sometimes. Then they’re open to argument.
That can all happen pretty quickly during an interaction, even in the span of a few well-constructed comments. We have a few people who are great at this. But if someone is just minding their own business in other forums, absorbing the ambient anticommunism of their environment, they’ll never reach that point, they’ll never be curious enough to want to lurk or browse a tankie forum.
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???
It’s a deleted comment. What?
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