(vegan)(arch) btw
What fallout character looks like Harry Potter?
“Daniel”
Sorry, thanks. Why does that fallout character look like Harry Daniel?
No no, the character looks like Daniel Potter.
Reminds me of Daniel Harry though.
People always get Daniel Harry and Elijah Potter mixed up.
Didn’t one of them marry a man made out of metal or something like that?
Cuz he’s a wizard, Kender
Non-vegan playing devil’s advocate, here; I’ve always hated that argument: Yes the chicken is already dead, but by purchasing the product, you’re paving the way for more chickens to be killed to replace the one(s) you ate. Supply and demand. We need to come up with a better counter-argument.
Personally I’m not ready to stop eating meat, and probably never will be. I’m counting on lab-grown meat to come down in price enough to be produced en mssse within the next 10-15 years, and then I can enjoy all I want, 100% guilt-free. I will be among the first to buy it when it hits the supermarket.
That makes sense when you are in the store and still buying them.
It doesn’t make sense when they are already in the oven being heated and have been paid for some time ago.
Maybe if microwaves failed abruptly more there’d be less people buying chicken nuggets.
Nah it still makes sense, because the meat you just bought will have to be restocked with more, this resulting in more chicken deaths. If no one bought the meat, there’d be no reason to replace it with more.
That’s what this person is saying. After someone has already made the purchase, it’s better to eat the meat. Because the damage has already been done by the purchase, showing demand for the meat, and causing the meat to be restocked. So once you already have it, (like in the case of this post, where they already had it, and were actively cooking it) it’s better to just eat the meat so that it doesn’t go to waste
This is a pretty poor argument. Ultimately purchasing it was done in order to cook and eat it. Trying to shift the ‘moment of sin’ is lying to yourself
I’m not trying to shift the moment of sin. Obviously the purchase was made with the intent to cook and eat the meat. I’m just responding to the scenario that has been given. When somebody has already purchased the meat, as is in this case, what are the benefits of trying to prevent them from consuming it? In the scenario of the post, the person already has made the purchase in the store, already brought it home, and is already in the act of cooking it. At this point what is the purpose of hoping that their power goes out and the food they’ve already bought goes to waste? Rather than accurately criticizing the act of making the purchase in the first place.
This whole comment chain was about the fact that the argument should be made to prevent someone from purchasing meat. And that there isn’t much point to preventing someone from consuming meat after the purchase has already been made. It’s the difference between treating a symptom vs treating the underlying issue.
If anything, preventing them from consuming it would mean more meat gets used. Power goes out and nuggets go bad, OP is still hungry and either salvages the current nuggets or throws them away and sets more nuggets on their plate, or maybe goes to the store/fast food place right then to get more.
If it’s already cooking and it’s not done when the cooking stops due to outside conditions, (power outage) it’s going to waste. It’s effectively consumed when cooking starts, not when it goes in your mouth.
But then I’m buying more nuggets to replace the nuggets I didn’t get to eat because they’ve been ruined. It effectively doubles my meat consumption for the meal.
Oh man I love fat goth girlfriends.
…What chicken nuggies take 20 minutes to cook?
A lot of them do in the oven. They’re way better that way.
I think an air fryer has distorted my perception of cooking times, heh.
And preheating!
Remember when it was called “warming”? Ya know, for centuries prior? Yeah… right up there with “prepurchase”. In that vein, if buying isn’t owning, why would “food” be lawfully required to be, I dunno, edible? 💁🏼♂️
What?
“Preheat” is a bullshit marketing word we’ve all blithely swallowed and memed. Much like “prepurchase”, “expiration date”, etc. ¿Claro?
How is “preheat” a marketing word? Every time I’m preheat the oven, I won’t go “suddenly I feel an overwhelming urge to go buy a new oven.”
If I’m shopping for an oven for whatever reason, I don’t go “Oooh, this one has a preheat function!”
It’s literally the word that I’ve used my entire life to describe the stage between turning on the oven and it reaching the set temperature. Language evolves, deal with it.
I’ve never heard of “prepurchase,” what does that even mean? Like a free demo or something?
Expiration dates are approximate at best and occasionally only there to avoid liability, but I wouldn’t say it’s a “marketing thing.” More like a “regulatory thing.”
What’s claro is that you seem to be bent out of shape over nothing, for the love of being miserable.
What, are you microwaving them?
Air frying.
450F ~10 minutes is a lot already. 20 would turn nuggets into black crumbs, heh.
How long do you keep wings in there for?
Way shorter than what the instructions say, for pretty much anything.
As long as it says to, ±1-2 minutes…
turning halfway through, of course
That’s what I do too. I was hoping you had a secret time somehow lol
Reading the instructions is my secret method
Hmm I’ll have to look into this “reading” thing…
In a way. I took my nuggies to Chernobyl.
The good thick ones, if you like them crispy.
to make them delicious, yes.
Also maybe you need less time if you’re only making 4 in an air fryer, but us sane people make 8.Oven or air fryer are a game changer
That’s the joke. You don’t have to cook them because it’s mechanically reclaimed mulch and probably already sterilised.
Vegans: Why does no one like us?
Also Vegans: (Always “on” and going out of their way to insert themselves into situations so they can act exactly like that).
Yes I know not all vegans are like that but I also never see them telling the militant ones to STFU and stop making them al look bad.
If you think something is a moral emergency, you’re going to be more hysterical about it. It’s like saying “democrats need to stop being so militant about climate change and tell others who are to stop.” You can drive a hummer and fly a private jet everywhere as a lifestyle choice, but people can and should call you out for it.
But the point is that calling out seems to make people double down more often than agree and change.
Well yeah I mean if you’re the minority I agree. I generally think people who are too emotionally invested are generally the worst at convincing people. I’m just giving a reason why they’re so aggressive and angry.
I see the same in some people arguing for lgbtq+ rights and I don’t think they’re being effective(maybe even damaging), but I get why they’re so upset about it.
Oh yeah, it’s absolutely understandable. But also frustrating because division tactics only need to point out things to be angry about and then people will get angry about them (might have already been angry about them but now the topic is on their mind) and yell or lecture people about it which feeds that division and makes it less likely they’ll ever get on the same page. Especially when the offending side was trying to act in good faith but gets accused of just being an enemy or bad person.
Shame only works when the person decides on their own they should feel shame, otherwise the best you can hope for is platitudes while they secretly want to see you fall (or otherwise get out from under your sphere of influence) so they can stop pretending to care about that thing. Average case would be an argument that leads nowhere, which is what usually happens online since no one has any real power over others, other than mods/admins who can only ban.
Do you expect vegans to mind control other vegans or something? Militant people are usually not the ones who listen when you ask them to shut up.
Isn’t mind control a perk you can select on a vegan Fallout run?
How does not eating dairy products give you psychic powers?
“Militant” is being kind. “Belligerent” is closer to the experience.
And belligerent types are even less likely to listen when you ask them to stop. That’s exactly my point.
It’s so nice to agree 😁
It’s as annoying as someone bragging about big ol’ raw steaks and ribs and such, like they have been doing in the Texas political stuff lately. Both as a smear (“look at this pussy non-Texan!”) and a defense (“I do love ribs, I really do!”) and it all comes across the same way to me.
Truthfully, neither types of statements personally bother me, but given everything we know about the climate, economics, etc., the vegans are better and easier to defend.
I don’t buy meat, but I’ll eat it if it’s given to me. It’s a treat to me, and I savour it when it happens. The downside is that vegetarians, vegans, and meat eaters all hate me 😂
[Jokingly] That just sounds like you’re a meat mooch.
oppertunistic carnivore
My wife’s been collecting food allergies like Pokemon these last few months, so I have a feeling I’ll be joining you on a similar diet!
you are doing better than 98% of people so I think vegans and vegetarians would be extremely happy with that (I’m “vegan” but will eat stuff thats going in the trash otherwise)
Vegetarians are happy at first, until they see me just devour a whole chicken once a month, then they give me the side eye lol. Vegans don’t like that I eat dairy and eggs. Carnivores get annoyed when I have a meal of “rabbit food”. I seem to annoy everyone 😂
I dunno, to me it’s called having a varied diet and it’s normal. Where I grew up, that’s what you ate. Mostly plants, dairy from the cows/goats/sheep, eggs from the chickens. Then sometimes, the village would slaughter a goat, and you had a party and ate as much meat as you could because it doesn’t preserve well. The animals were treated with respect, but we also ate them sometimes. It doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive.
Food is a weird thing, I find people care a lot about what I eat for some reason. It feels like I’m not following some unspoken rules or something
I don’t think anyone in the carnivore space would be annoyed at you eating what you choose to eat. If you’re healthy, why would it bother anyone?
rabbit food one is my favorite lol
I think if you’re getting eggs / milk / anything from animals who aren’t mistreated, that’s like 99% of the way to being vegan. For eating a slaughtered animal, if it had a good life that’s like 80% of the way to being vegan :p
Food is extremely important to a lot of people, it’s something to look forward to after a long day, a place where they can talk to people, a time when they can relax and feel calm. Anything that changes that can be scary for people, which is why I just say reduce what you can, don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Regular vegetarians have tried to tell them to tone it down, it just makes them more radical.
That’s because vegetarians are either hypocrites or don’t care about animal suffering in the first place. Ideologically they have more in common with meat eaters than with vegans.
*stay mad, cheesebreath. Those are the only two options. Either they don’t care about causing animal suffering for their lifestyle, or they claim to care and are hypocrites. ‘animals shouldn’t be killed for food, except for these foods’ is a fundamentally hypocritical position.
Perfection is the enemy of good. Being vegetarian is already a huge improvement, not just for animal welfare, but also from an ecological viewpoint.
It’s a lot easier to convince people to eat less meat, or give it up entirely, than to just become vegan overnight. And many vegetarians eventually become vegan
Yes, when they realize being vegetarian is hypocritical. Or they aren’t hypocrites because they don’t care about animal suffering and they’re doing it for environmental reasons or whatever.
a nonzero amount of this is literally astroturfing to make vegans look bad, if this makes you dislike vegans in general you’re kinda just falling for meat industry propaganda.
I’m not a vegan but i don’t eat red meat, so i guess this doesn’t count as me telling militant “”“”“vegans”“”“” to stfu, but whatever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do-gooder_derogation
It’s your subconscious telling you they’re right and trying to protect your ego.
Nah, I will readily admit that vegans are morally correct, that I am weak for being unable to commit fully, and also that the evangelism is often cringe and counterproductive.
I’m not a vegan, but behavior change (if you want to change) is most effectively accomplished with smaller, incremental changes. If you try to make huge, sweeping changes from the start, there’s a very good chance you won’t stick with it. Vegans expecting you to “just” eliminate all animal products on day 1 is very unrealistic.
For the animal products example, you could reduce (not eliminate) consumption of one thing at a time. Start with one meal per week for a week or two, reduce the portion of meat or other animal product you want to eliminate by 1/3 or whatever you can manage. After a week or two, you reduce the portion in another meal. Give it a week or two. Then another portion. And another after that. Etc.
If you can do more, then try it out. If you feel like you can’t reduce one week or another, don’t pressure yourself to do it, just consider it a victory of sorts that you didn’t eat more. It’s a marathon, not a sprint. Taper the dosage, don’t go cold turkey.
I haven’t done this for animal products, but I have done it with alcohol and prescription medication. I can’t guarantee you’ll see success, all I can say is that it worked for me and others I learned from.
I’ve been gradually cutting out meat from my diet for years. I started with pigs “because they’re so smart”, then watched cute cow videos and stopped eating them. Those are, iirc, the highest environmental impact meats so just that much does a fair amount of harm reduction.
There’s also the “try it for X-amount of time and see how you feel at the end.” I knew someone who went vegan after deciding to try it out for a month. At first it was a trial run, but by the end he decided to keep going.
Either way, taking baby steps is always the start. Whether you’re cutting back or decide to try it out for a span of time, you’re making personal progress.
The weakness is not daring to fully understand how vegans are morally correct. I ate animals for 34 years and was too weak to face the reality of their situation.
I think veganism just self-selects for insane people, because you have to be a bit crazy to go against 98% of the population, eat differently than your friends and family, and ask constantly if things have cheese or milk in them everywhere you go.
source: me e: im literally talking about myself in this paragraph
As someone who has gone a bit crazy eating against 99% of the population, differently then friends and family, and always having to ask if things have sugar or oil in them everywhere I go… I can confirm I am insane.
and ask constantly if things have cheese or milk in them everywhere you go
Well, tbf ya vegans aren’t alone on this one
- my friend who dies if 0.001g of lactose gets in contact with his mouth
you have to be a bit crazy to go against 98% of the population
Ah yes, because the ever-so sane majority is always right.
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God, if only those people who want to save the planet shut the fuck up about it! How about you save the planet without annoying me??
I do not disagree, but considering the meat-eating cultures, telling them to stop, has not exactly proved to be a winning move. The more working way seems to be, to get them reduce their meat consumption first. Then slowly convince them to take steps further… and even if that takes a long time, less meat is still eaten, so it is towards a better direction. Of course it would be better, if everyone would just stop eating meat right now. But that is still an idealistic take, sadly, especially with the meat industry having the lobbying money right now.
Whilst I understand your argument, if a strategy isn’t working, pursuing it becomes more of a personal identity thing than a commitment to an objective.
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they may want to save the planet, but being vegan doesn’t do that.
I’m convinced saving the plant will require eating local food, no industrial inputs, no fossil fuel consumption. Moving everyone to a diet that requires exotic foods that must be shipped around the globe, massive industrial inputs, and has built in nutrient deficiencies - seems counter productive.
“The planet” doesn’t need “saving” and has less than zero fucks to give about anyone or anything. Stop with the prepackaged white knighting, FFS. You’re not doing anyone a favor, least of all yourself.
“Don’t be mean to the meat eaters in case they might consider stopping someday” isn’t a very effective strategy at getting people to think about what they’re supporting though.
Neither is being mean, as it turns out.
Lol. What a childish take. How about, “Worry about yourself and your own problems. If it doesn’t hurt you, you can’t tell people what to do, and you shouldn’t want to either. If they ask, that’s one thing. But jumping on your soapbox every chance you get to preach the virtues of veganism is the same energy as religious zealots who try to recruit everyone they speak to. Nobody wants to be around that all the time. Don’t be that person.”
Keeping your head down, worrying only about your own problems is exactly what the Epstein class wants out of you. Don’t ask, don’t question, don’t push, just lie down and take it.
“Don’t advocate for others ever”, got it.
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Lemmy users encountering a vegan: “How dare you care about what someone does in their private life?”
Also Lemmy users when someone mentions they still use Windows occasionally: “The clock tells the time. It is the time. THE TIME OF WAR.”
oh lemmy has a sizable vegan percentage.
the problem is they became so militant, and abrasive to otherwise normal behavior, that they cloistered themselves to their own groups.
they don’t allow participation of the general population, yet don’t prevent their posts from reaching ALL causing immediate confrontation, and alienating themselves as an “other” to the larger collective.
it’s a shame because any sort of headway or mutual understanding of the horrors of how we treat livestock gets kinda overshadowed by personal attacks and righteous indignity. no real conversation on the issues happen as it turns into another circle jerk one one side, and a issue that is overlooked by the other as manufactured by our society.
I generally see some good comments from vegans (and non vegans) in these kinds of threads, but definitely also see some of the comments you’ve mentioned of “you are evil and immoral for doing this.”
yea, the ones that are not in the vegan safe space are not primed to, i hate to say it, virtue signal. it would not get so bad if they were not rave baiting all communities. but i do notice i don’t get meny cooking recipes from the vegan channels, must be talking about something else…
Kind of a mainstay of vegan evangelicalism for 75+ years
punchlines make crappy titles
This is BrandNewSentence. The post headlines are always the sentence.
then you should have chosen a different sentence. “that’s fuckin nice but the chicken is already in the nuggets” or “(vegan) i hope your power goes out” Both choices better fit a BNS post construction and dont put the punch line in the title.
to be clear BNS /=/ Punchline. all bns posts dont have the punchline in the title. The comedy from a BNS post is derived from the BNS being the setup and the humor being the explanation or reason for the BNS to be uttered in the first place. Setting aside the issue of using a sentence that starts with “I love this post because…” just adds a whole 'nother meta layer of confusion.
but thats just like, my opinion. man.
I disagree.
Wouldn’t it be more vegan-esque (?) to consume the chicken nugget and make use of it’s sacrifice than to throw out an uncooked warm nugget?
buying chicken nuggets rather obliterates any vegan-icity to start with
You assume the acquisition of said nuggies was transactional? In this day & age? Pfft. Sweet, summer child.
No.
It wasn’t a sacrifice. The chicken didn’t volunteer.
I think most sacrifices were not consensual.
Fair enough, but “it’s sacrifice” implies it was a choice the chicken made.
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If it didn’t volunteer then why did it choose to be born food?
