I’m sorry but they is just an objective improvement over he/she. It made every FF9 scene involving Quina really annoying to read
i wish commiefornia and killadelphia were real places
Killadelphia sounds like a sick hip-hop album from the 90s
Or a Biohazard album.
Kill or be Philled!
I don’t know anything about but it is the name of a comic with some sick covers
I wonder why it’s coded like that…oh right it’s because it’s easier to write one version of the text then to have to find/replace words dynamically based on a check function that is also per character based. There is a good chance you’d need to re-code a ton of the game to account for this change and it would be to absolutely no benefit.
These people do not think and do not want to expand any of their own effort, because all their effort is earmarked for getting heated over nothing.
It’s not really dynamic. You’re just defining variables and then interpolating the value in some template. If the game can handle a custom character name, custom pronouns is a fairly small addition.
“Oh, that $item? That belongs to ${char.name}! It’s ${char.possessive} $item.”
It would have a list to pick from for NPCs and ask the player to either also pick form it, or enter their own neopronoun and how it would be used in a sentence. This wouldn’t make it harder to do, if you’re already putting the time in to code all of it.
I believe every game should allow the player to arbitrarily specify pronouns all the time forever. I came to this conclusion after discovering that the hit TWINE game The Wayhaven Chronicles has provisions for theoretically infinite pronouns, because pronouns are a text field internally, but the game only uses “he”, “she” and “they” based on the player specifying their gender as man, woman or enby. We must do better.
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I agree with this for the player. My point is that it’ more work to do it and that the devs of an indie strategy game likely did not put their main focus on that complexity. I don’t even know how the game actually works since I haven’t played it, but if it has mission briefings, chances are they are just written gender neutral because it was easier.
It’s the same as with Stardew Valley and gender-agnostic dating. Caring about gender would have added work to the game so the dev didn’t do it and put that time into other things.
Caring about gender would have added work to the game so the dev didn’t do it and put that time into other things.
I hate this deeply, actually specifically about Stardew and its ilk. Stardew’s nobody-is-anything approach I am no fan of. It’s not even like you can play it genderless style, so it’s not even really “not caring about gender”, it’s just writing every bachelor and bachelorette questline broadly enough that they can fit both binary genders! Big sigh.
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I hate when NPCs are Playersexual, so lame. Just make all the characters gay, because then everyone that matters will be happy.
playersexual writing can cause some laziness on details but you shouldn’t worry about inaccessible alternate universes
Just play as the gender a given character is attracted to if you wanna access alternate universes, lmao.
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I believe that straight men should be locked out of romance in video games and in other places.
“Why aren’t there any dating apps for straight men!?” “Because straight men aren’t allowed to access dating apps, duh.”
“Why is there no such thing as straight porn!?” “Obviously because only gay people are responsible enough to have access to porn, just like with guns.”
Valid point. I can forgive it for games like Stardew that were literally made by one person, though (at least at the time that decision was made, obviously there is a team now that the game had it’s enormous success). You have to make a lot of decisions about what to cut and what to keep when you are working on such a project on your own.
Now if triple A does it though…fuck that.
Actually I’m gonna push back on this too. Since there are only the two binary genders, I refuse to believe that altering this would have made Stardew impossible to make. Everyone in the valley being textually bisexual might really enhance the game, too, if you went that direction. I think the bigger issue is that that’s not the game Concernedape wanted to make, and so you have this extremely lifeless set of romance quests that is at times less enjoyable than literally swapping the protagonist gender on Friends of Mineral Town.
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I think the writing in the game is fine. Like, not stellar, sure, but fine.
So how much work would it be? The way it’s now, all the game cares about is that there is a bunch of NPCs. The male/Female selector is something only the player character would have, but they do have it because of character creation. So the flag exists. Let’s assume you haven’t made any of it yet and want to add as little as possible extra content:
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You need to decide the dating preferences of 10 people. More now, but 10 at game release. This would not be difficult or time-consuming, you just add a check. How many characters should have which orientation? Up to you, but I’d say make one set of gays and one set of bi/pans would feel realistic for that small a community. For the Bi/Pans they work like now, for everyone else you check the gender flag of the player and go from there. The gay and bi character of the same gender could then be default partners for each other if the player doesn’t go for them.
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Check and display who is eligible in the NPC overview. Trivial to do, but I want to mention everything.
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You’d need to write some amount of differing blurbs depending on player gender for at least these 8 bachelors, since they need to convey their preference in some way. Like Alex telling the male PC that he has a great ass from farm work or what have you. This is not a lot of work, but it is some work.
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you need distinct friendship cutscenes for any character that potentially won’t go out with the player. So you need to make these distinct scenes for 8 of the bachelors. Minimally, you would need to change the 8 heart events only for this, if you rewrite the first set to be more ambiguous about if you’re dating etc., but I’d say you realistically need to rewrite them from 4 or 6 hearts onwards for at least some of them. good news is though, you don’t need an extra 10 heart scene, because you can only get there if they would date you anyway. Let’s say that’s 2.5 scenes per bachelor, so 20 new cutscenes to make.
That is kinda it. How long does it take to make one of those scenes? I dunno but some of them have a fair bit of unique assets. But that’s for the dates, which are supposed to be big moments. You can get by setting your friendship cutscenes in town and without many custom assets.
I dunno, sounds like a week or two of full-time work to me. So not something that would have made the game not come out, but an appreciable chunk of labor to do.
Lastly, when I played the game when it came out…was that in 2014? Fuck I am old. I remember the ‘everyone dates everyone’ feel of it fondly and not as a negative. Certainly better then having to play male Shepard to date Tali in Mass Effect.
You’d need to write some amount of differing blurbs depending on player gender
Extremely loud incorrect buzzer noise. The easy solution would just be to make everyone gay, which really would sort it out. For what it’s worth you can also write bi or even pansexual characters, but they have to be believable about it. Pans better actually reflect attraction regardless of gender, is all, instead of this numb lifeless thing that bends to the player.
you need distinct friendship cutscenes for any character that potentially won’t go out with the player.
I mean, do you? The idea of platonic “social links” is not a bad one but the Harvest Moon games never had it to my knowledge, so you could always just cut this. Plus, if you’re feeling brave you’d have the ability to keep it platonicstyle with characters of compatible gender, to avoid amatonomrativity. That would be even more work, though, because actually fully reflecting gender and romance and shit is pretty hard, which is probably why Stardew just takes the least-resistance approach of “minimum flexibility required for whatever the player wants”.
I remember the ‘everyone dates everyone’ feel of it fondly and not as a negative. Certainly better then having to play male Shepard to date Tali in Mass Effect.
I mean, have you ever heard anyone gripe about this before now? I’m a weird little freak and I hate joy. First off, I did not even know you could bed Tali, that’s hilarious. Also though… Why not just play ManShep if that’s your bag…? She’s a straight lady, do you wanna date a straight lady?
Fwiw Mass Effect does actually gate romance path by gender, which goes to show that you have to do more than just that to be good. I also sailed through my first ME playthroughs without even the implication of romance from any of the characters, which was weird and kinda funny.
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The people in Stardew were the worst part for me personally.
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If it’s so important to you, why haven’t you made the mod?
They don’t have the skills to create a mod.
They don’t even have basic logic skills, probably
Because they(lol) don’t want this for themselves; they want it removed for other people.
Ultima 3 (1983) had gender selection.
- Male
- Female
- Other
As an Other I think gamers need to learn their gaming history.
Fallen London has options to select character gender:
- A lady
- A gentleman
- My dear sir, there are individuals roaming the streets of Fallen London at this very moment with the faces of squid! Squid! Do you ask them their gender? And yet you waste our time asking me trifling and impertinent questions about mine? It is my own business, sir, and I bid you good day.
I haven’t played Fallen London for a long time. I like that description.
Singular they has been around for hundreds of years, there’s no reason a game from the 80s couldn’t have used it.
Chaucer used the singular they in the 14th Century, back when he was popularising Middle English.
It’s even been in the Bible IIRC.
Afaik English Bible translations mainly used generic masculine but notably NIV in 2011 started using they instead (which is just more clear for a modern English translation). The original Hebrew and Greek both mostly use generic masculine pronouns, I think. Yes, chuds have been calling the translation woke or some equivalent for 15 years.
But talking about language beyond trends within contemporary English I think kind of shows the artificiality of the dispute, because for example first person pronouns in all languages mentioned here are gender neutral. Do we need to start having Mary refer to herself as atashi? Why do we need to declare the gender of others but not ourselves? If it’s self-evident in our case (a silly idea even in cisnormative society because we are talking about script here with the Bible), what makes it less self-evident in the case of referring to others? But they would pretend the issue is preserving the integrity of the translation, to which one must point out that Hebrew and Koine Greek also use gender for objects and abstract concepts, like Romance languages and many others do, but there is no outcry that when Jesus calls himself “the way, the truth, and the life,” we must make sure the reader knows that all three of those nouns are feminine.
but there is no outcry that when Jesus calls himself “the way, the truth, and the life,” we must make sure the reader knows that all three of those nouns are feminine.
found my new thing to be a crank about
Even better, ὁδὸς can also be masculine as well as feminine, so the Gospel of John chose to make it “way” feminine when it didn’t have to.
Edit: Ah, fuck, I was wrong, the masculine ὁδὸς means “threshold.” I was thinking of another m/f noun beginning with omicron.
I’ve been looking forward to the day that these people get scolded out of whatever room they’re doing this shit in
It must be exhausting being the mirror in their bathroom. The monologues that mirror has listened to. By gods.
I wish the rest of steam comments were even mildly comparable to these. Ridiculous amount of bigotry there.
Gamers are nazis, steam forums are basically the same as twitter/4chan now, a cesspit of frothing fascists ragebaiting themselves by looking for woke in everything.
Not to mention how fucking horny they are. Can’t go one line in the community section without seeing softcore porn. I have sexual content turned off. Probably so much more upsetting to me because I’m ace.
Same. I’m like.
“Bro, you’re an American puritan! You think sexuality is a sin! Why are you engaging in something you think is sinful?!”
I’m sure their logic is “I’m such a perfect little boy for Jeebus, it’s my reward for conforming so well.”
They only have a problem with sexuality when it’s the sexuality of anyone other than cis hetero men.
Oh my god, so you’re telling me I’m the inverse of a gamer?
This actually makes so much sense.
Gamer-nazis aren’t puritans. Puritanism doesn’t even really exist anymore, but the faction who are trying to sensor sexual content via payment processors are a different group from the very consumerist gamer-nazis.
“Puritanism doesn’t even really exist anymore” he says in a thread full of people complaining about “gooner games” and treating sexual artwork like its inherently lesser than our pure christianity approved natoslop and being horny is a
sinweird gooner thingits not like sex workers have been systemically oppressed for decades or anything lol
im sure it doesnt exist tho,
I think large parts of hexbear still have this mindset, which I struggle to be shocked at but am disappointed in
anybody who uses “gooner” as a descriptor I immediately don’t trust
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slur
its just people who want to call things “dgen” but dont want to be called reactionaries for it
Puritianism isn’t just stodgy conservatives, it’s a specific strain. “Gooner” insults here are from more like annoverlap between male-negative patriarchy and liberal-style feminism where hating a specific kind of low-totem man is okay. It’s why no one here applies “goon” adjective to romantasy stuff when it’s sociologically similar.
Capitalism killed puritanism the same way it killed a bunch of other feudal ideologies.
“its a specific strain” ah yes there is no strain of extremely sex negative patriarchal people under capitalism, they simply dont exist? lol? this is such a nothing statement
and famously women dont get horny or get off or play horny video games?
people dont apply “goon” to romantasy stuff because they like romantasy and can pretend its a completely different thing. famously reactionaries are extremely consistent with their beliefs and how they apply them,
you can jump through as many hoops as you want to say “no no im not a puritan this is bog standard reactionary slop not a super special strain of reactionary slop” but that doesnt change the fact you sound the exact same as the person that calls a woman in a bikini “goon bait” and call people who look at pornography “dgenerates”
or complaining about “unnecessary sex scenes” in movies because you are incapable of wrapping your head around sex not being an inherently lesser act, or that it could have any meaning outside of “make babies”
its the same exact bullshit used to oppress people for literal centuries just with a fresh coat of paint expunged by the exact same type of people
Don’t forget that the concept of expressing one’s sexuality in creative works didn’t exist until capitalists invented it in the 20th century! Horny media is a novel cognitohazard that will fry your brain and definitely not something humans have been doing since before recorded history /s
its not like sex workers have been systemically oppressed for decades or anything lol
Centuries or millenia, but I don’t think people here are complaining about sex workers, they are comaining about, e.g. “misogynistic haremslop visual novel/rpg #5,000,000,000,000,002” and things like that.
Edit: sorry, the community section, so I guess they mean “misogynistic sex slave dungeon slop #10,000,000,000,000,000,003”
complaining about the existence of sexual artwork and acting like its inherently lesser because its sexual its still puritanism lmao
“generic” or not doesnt matter, and the problem there is misogyny and heteronormativity. literally that exact same misogyny argument is used for sex work lmao. also creating sexual artwork is a form of sex work.
You pretty much have to turn sexual content off unless you want to drown in gooner mods.
It’s funny, I’m ace and have every mature filter turned off yet don’t see this stuff that much. Not that I don’t see some random hentai games advertised but it is relatively minor when I go on steam.
I guess I don’t browse through all the mods and it could be community specific.
Yeah idk it seems like any game with a large modding community ends up having a porn wing of creators, particularly if the art style is already anime-esque. I remember Darkest Dungeon being particularly egregious and has pages of big titty waifus
I have played Darkest dungeon but I don’t think I modded it.
I have modded Bethesda games and know of the mods for those games but I guess I choose to not browse the more adult mods.
I also don’t have an issue with suggestive art or big titty waifus because I can choose not to engage with it or scroll past them. I also have mature filters turned off because sometimes I do want to engage with stuff made by queer creators which can be suggestive.
deleted by creator
I tend to see them when scrolling below a game in my library, under the news, that’s where I generally see the community content.
I don’t tend to go on the community parts often. But when I have I don’t recall seeing lots of hentai either. I do see maybe one or two games store page thumbnails and thats it. It isn’t something I have issues with becauae those generally aren’t overly explicit.
Until I turned on (very light) sexual content, I couldn’t see Brütal legend. I fucking love that game and steam hid it from me because it didn’t show even very light sexual content.
That comes with the downside of being shown gooner content on game community pages and being advertised straight up hentai games. No in-between.
Would be curious if console gamers are like this as much. “PC master race” shit took off for a reason.
Ridiculous doesn’t even begin to describe imo. Steam forums are a genuine cesspool of nazis. I had to stop myself from going there unless I’m looking for something specific. Steam forums emit as much Hitler particles as 4chan.
Another data point for my “mods are for the evil” life-thesis I’ve been crafting.
Counterpoint: I can turn Skyrim, Timberborn, and countless other games that were never intended for it into friendslop by way of modding
friendslop
do I even want to know what this means? Just adding multiplayer?Well, the term itself refers to a recent trend in indie gaming, where people make janky low-effort games that arent very good and wouldn’t be very fun, except they’re multiplayer and the entire point is to bring your friends and fuck around for a few hours before forgetting the game exists.
Tbh when you mod multiplayer into a game it wasn’t designed for, that’s exactly the kind of game you get most of the time
You make me want to cry, That’s (in my opinion) kind of evil. But even so, I do respect YOUR opinion.
All the modposting finally makes sense now.
To be fair it might strain believability for everyone to use they/them, and using they when “they” don’t would be misgendering, uh, them (lol).
i could see they-defaultism exploding or developing into a sort of formal/informal thing like some languages have in the second-person.
German already uses plural ‘they’ Sie as a formal address.
Finnish too. Of course, our singular pronouns aren’t gendered either
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Leeroy, you need a new hobby. This isnt healthy. You’re fuck-ass mad every post, and all your posts have become about posting. You keep getting banned for being hostile. Log off for your own sake, this is a stress addiction for you.
should be banned for transphobia not just hostility imo
Deleted their own account after writing one last big crashout post with my post from this thread as a screencap, completely frothing at the mouth and as usual outright lying about what they had written in spite of the evidence being all there in the modlog, giving off the biggest fragile reactionary vibes imaginable. Good riddance.
If we’re doing a eulogy, this one was also pretty interesting: https://hexbear.net/post/6848864/6699641
You knew the “i’m friends with black people” defense, get ready for the “i’m friends with black nazbols” defense lmao, can’t make this shit up.
You should try not to tell other people which pronouns to use, it would prevent a lot of drama when you’re in a community with a bunch of trans people.
the shitting on it/its pronouns too. i’ve literally been misgendered/degendered with they/them too often and it sucked so much that i will never use those pronouns. makes my blood boil to think about anyone just deciding to use they/them for me because they don’t like my actual pronouns.
it really shouldn’t be so hard to use the pronouns next to someones username or correct yourself if you mistake it but leeeroooyjeeenkiiins will never self crit abt this.
Yeah, a close friend of mine goes by it / its and seeing it being compared to literal Hitlerists by somebody who clearly refuses to engage with the matter in good faith seriously hurts.
I’m obviously biased, apparently Jenkis was still crashing out over an argument i was involved in alongside another trans girl months ago, but I’ve had it with this kind of bullshit, i will not accept it in this space, i will call it out when i see it.
Out of curiosity, what appeal does using it/its have for you?
i’m a little out of it right now but i’ll definitely come back to this and try to articulate it when i can sometime later
It pronouns always make me think of this
looks at modlog
Oh fuck I ain’t reading all that. Reminds me of when I’d get in arguments on 
where I eventually admitted to myself getting in 2-3 day long slap fights with people wasn’t healthy, but he’s bringing up shit from seemingly months ago.
